difference from a sub clipping and bottoming

[tinmanchris217 10+ year member]

I shouldn't have referred to clipped signal as similar to DC current. The square wave effect of clipping causes the woofer to be stationary for a few MILLISECONDS during each oscillation... and if this gets to be a large % of the time... over a long time... heat can accumulate.

Depending on the way your woofers are designed, they may reach the limit of their suspension before slapping the back plate. Either way, it's usually pretty dramatic floppage and has a different look to it compared to tight strong bass.

 

[only126db 10+ year member]

clipping is not bad for speakers of "any type." clipping will generate excessive heat but as long as it doesn't surpass the thermal limit of the coils it will not damage the speaker. try and kill a 2000wrms woofer with a 100wrms amp...it won't happen

Do some reading and you'll learn how clipping not only will cause an amplifier to output a dirty signal at sometimes well over twice it's rated power levels but it also produces DC current to the amplifier outputs which DC is a speakers worst enemy.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

Do some reading and you'll learn how clipping not only will cause an amplifier to output a dirty signal at sometimes well over twice it's rated power levels but it also produces DC current to the amplifier outputs which DC is a speakers worst enemy.

Idiot alert!!!

Sorry, clipping an amp in no way creates DC output, ever. It is close to a full square wave, but even then it is not a 100% square wave. What you are hearing in the clipped signal is the fact that an impulse, the leading edge of the square wave, contains every frequency out to infinity, this information is what causes the distortion and noise you hear, not DC which is never ever produced by an amp clipping. As long as the coil can thermally handle the power created by the amp, you will not damage the driver.

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

Do some reading and you'll learn how clipping not only will cause an amplifier to output a dirty signal at sometimes well over twice it's rated power levels but it also produces DC current to the amplifier outputs which DC is a speakers worst enemy.

This is very true and here is some great reading to back it up. Pay particular attention to the section about complex waveforms combining to create a DC signal that did not exist in the recording.

http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm

Everyone is pointing out some very good things and I feel this is a rare occasion where, even though people are wording things a bit differently, most are in agreement.

With that, I'd like to add that clipping from your amplifier most certainly can sound exactly like mechanical bottoming. If it would please everyone, I would be happy to make a video to demonstrate this.

This is a healthy thread guys, nice job.

 

[KOL 10+ year member]

Do some reading and you'll learn how clipping not only will cause an amplifier to output a dirty signal at sometimes well over twice it's rated power levels but it also produces DC current to the amplifier outputs which DC is a speakers worst enemy.

alright, did some reading

Since transformers cannot pass DC current by their nature, the DC cannot get to the voice coil

If the speakers can handle 3 or 4 times the power your amplifier can produce, there's virtually no way to damage your speakers (no matter how clipped the signal is).

you should try reading for yourself sometime, http://bcae1.com/is a great place to start

 

[ciaonzo 5,000+ posts]

alright, did some readingyou should try reading for yourself sometime, http://bcae1.com/is a great place to start

When taken out of context, things are not what they seem. What you quoted was only representing one type of amplifier, which was a tube design.

Watch what happens when I do the same thing.

DC Coupled - With a completely DC coupled amplifier (having neither the input cap nor the feedback cap), the situation is made even worse. The effective DC voltage presented to the loudspeaker load is 3.5V after 20ms, rising to 4.4V at 100ms. Although the voltage with this waveform will not get a great deal worse than measured, there are some waveforms that can easily impress up to 15V DC onto the voicecoil - this is likely to push the coil so far out of the gap that gross intermodulation distortion will occur in the loudspeaker, adding to the harmonics generated by the amplifier clipping.

This represents yet another type of amplifier but from the exact same article.

I've read practically every article on BCAE and it's not the end all be all for everything electronic. It is a very valuable resource however.

 

[only126db 10+ year member]

Ok then these people are all wrong and you are right....

http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm

http://www.softwork-orange.com/zed/Technical/Amplifier-Clipping.pdf

https://www.capitolsales.com/info/pdfs/Russound/Amplifier%20Clipping.pdf

http://fuzzbass.fuzzphoto.eu/0507.html

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t77525.html

There are a ton more articles, tech papers, even amplifier owners manuals which confirm that you are the idiot.

Why are amplifier clipping/limiting circuits the same circuits that protect against DC output? (not all amps have them)

Hmmmmm maybe it's just a sales gimmick .....

Do some more reading before you decide to speak of something you obviously know nothing about.

 

[KOL 10+ year member]

ouch, you're going to hurt my feelings calling me names //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif very mature for a 35 yr old

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif a clipped signal causing DC current isn't the argument here

a couple quotes from your links-

A side effect of clipping that is offend overlooked is the DC coupling instability. Most amplifiers can't amplify DC signals (why would they need to?), so DC signals are filtered out. This is called "decoupling". This has a huge advantage for designers: the output off set adjustment, that tells the amplifier where its zero level is...This self-adjustment relies on the fact the amplified signal always has an amplified value of zero (equal power in both the possitive and negative half of the signal)

The clipped part of the wave is not DC, there is no such thing as DC in an alternating wave. If there were DC in the signal, then it would be seen as DC offset. For the speaker to instantly stop moving when it hits the 'flat' bit of the clipped wave, the speaker would have to have a flat response to infinity hz. This is because it does not consist of DC, but harmonics of the fundamental tone.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

Ok then these people are all wrong and you are right....
http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm

http://www.softwork-orange.com/zed/Technical/Amplifier-Clipping.pdf

https://www.capitolsales.com/info/pdfs/Russound/Amplifier%20Clipping.pdf

http://fuzzbass.fuzzphoto.eu/0507.html

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t77525.html

There are a ton more articles, tech papers, even amplifier owners manuals which confirm that you are the idiot.

Why are amplifier clipping/limiting circuits the same circuits that protect against DC output? (not all amps have them)

Hmmmmm maybe it's just a sales gimmick .....

Do some more reading before you decide to speak of something you obviously know nothing about.

Amps do not put out a DC signal unless the power supply is faulty. At best the signal will be asymmetric and there will appear to be a DC offset, but integrating over a long time the amp will be putting out a 0 net voltage. An amp will not put out actual DC.

 

[Mass Car Audio 10+ year member]

Amps do not put out a DC signal unless the power supply is faulty. At best the signal will be asymmetric and there will appear to be a DC offset, but integrating over a long time the amp will be putting out a 0 net voltage. An amp will not put out actual DC.

X2. A amplifier that is working correctly will not put dc current to the voice coils.

 

[Mass Car Audio 10+ year member]

clipping is not bad for speakers of "any type." clipping will generate excessive heat but as long as it doesn't surpass the thermal limit of the coils it will not damage the speaker. try and kill a 2000wrms woofer with a 100wrms amp...it won't happen

Do you have any proof of this statment ????

 

[only126db 10+ year member]

ouch, you're going to hurt my feelings calling me names //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif very mature for a 35 yr old
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif a clipped signal causing DC current isn't the argument here

a couple quotes from your links-

The idiot statement was in response to bose301s idiot comment, not you.

As for an amplifier not puting out DC voltage, the way clipping makes the coil/cone react by holding it in a motionless state for a longer period of time is the same as applying DC voltage to the driver this is why they say that a square wave/clipping produces DC voltage, there is still being voltage/current applied and doesn't stop yet the cone/coil movement does, it is exactly the same as DC voltage so how can something be exactly like another yet not be the other ?

If you were to get pulled over with an ounce of some white powder that looked exactly like coke, snorted exactly like coke and got you high exactly like coke would it not be considered coke? Yes it would....

Thats also like saying your vehicle alternator does not pass a/c voltage, check it and you will see that it does.

It's called leakage, and everything has the possibility to 'leak' especially when pushed beyond it's limits that it was designed for.

 

[Mass Car Audio 10+ year member]

As for an amplifier not puting out DC voltage, the way clipping makes the coil/cone react by holding it in a motionless state for a longer period of time is the same as applying DC voltage to the driver this is why they say that a square wave/clipping produces DC voltage, there is still being voltage/current applied and doesn't stop yet the cone/coil movement does, it is exactly the same as DC voltage so how can something be exactly like another yet not be the other ?

QUOTE]

Just go read how ac current flows compaired to DC current.

It is not dc current going to the coils, it is a clipped waveform of AC current. I don't understand why people keep saying it's DC current. (Ignorance)

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

The idiot statement was in response to bose301s idiot comment, not you.

As for an amplifier not puting out DC voltage, the way clipping makes the coil/cone react by holding it in a motionless state for a longer period of time is the same as applying DC voltage to the driver this is why they say that a square wave/clipping produces DC voltage, there is still being voltage/current applied and doesn't stop yet the cone/coil movement does, it is exactly the same as DC voltage so how can something be exactly like another yet not be the other ?

If you were to get pulled over with an ounce of some white powder that looked exactly like coke, snorted exactly like coke and got you high exactly like coke would it not be considered coke? Yes it would....

Thats also like saying your vehicle alternator does not pass a/c voltage, check it and you will see that it does.

It's called leakage, and everything has the possibility to 'leak' especially when pushed beyond it's limits that it was designed for.

Actually it's called ripple, not leakage. Get your terms correct or you will continue to look like a moron.

Again, the fact that the coil is motionless for a split second longer has nothing to do with DC, it is not DC, an amplifier does not pass DC, end of story.

 

[andrewmoore13 10+ year member]

The idiot statement was in response to bose301s idiot comment, not you.

As for an amplifier not puting out DC voltage, the way clipping makes the coil/cone react by holding it in a motionless state for a longer period of time is the same as applying DC voltage to the driver this is why they say that a square wave/clipping produces DC voltage, there is still being voltage/current applied and doesn't stop yet the cone/coil movement does, it is exactly the same as DC voltage so how can something be exactly like another yet not be the other ?

If you were to get pulled over with an ounce of some white powder that looked exactly like coke, snorted exactly like coke and got you high exactly like coke would it not be considered coke? Yes it would....

Thats also like saying your vehicle alternator does not pass a/c voltage, check it and you will see that it does.

It's called leakage, and everything has the possibility to 'leak' especially when pushed beyond it's limits that it was designed for.

Sorry but thats not 100% true. If a lab were to analyze the "coke" you had in your car and it did not match the illegal chemical substance that makes up cocaine it would be dismissed in court. In order to be charged with possession of cocaine the powder that is collected at the scene must have the proper chemical make up as specified by the law.

This has caused the rise of designer/synthetic drugs. What people have started doing is altering the chemical make up of illegal drugs to make them be considered different substances, however maintaining the desired side effects. They have also been able to make drugs exponentially more potent and effective.

EW CHEMISTRY //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif