Debates last night

[mrray13 10+ year member]

waffles.....yummy....

i didn't watch the debates, didn't really care too...

but from what i've read today and soem highlites on the radio....Kerry was indeed better prepared to speak, not really with the issues....Bush is a redneck and it showed..but i don't believe he is unitelligent..

as too the comments about waffling or flip flopping or sticking to ur guns.....i'll take the guy who sticks to his guns..at least u know where he stands...even if he is wrong.

i think the main thing that i have learned is that Kerry is the quentessential(spell?) politician...he's going to back whatever is the popular way to go..then come up with "reasons" for changing his mind...

still....i vote for perot

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[swimfreak26 10+ year member]

at least u know where he stands...even if he is wrong.

Wow, I haven't met too many people that vote on "hard-headedness" you must feel smart.

Learn the issues, learn where people stand, then vote. Otherwise sleep all day on the 2nd please.

 

[TwistedVisions 10+ year member]

thank you..... saves me from typing and thinking of my own opinion.

LOL just playing shrapner.... Now about the debates last night, well i didn't watch all it because of homework, but from what i watched this is what i gathered. Bush stumbled on alot of his thoughts, which i guess you can argue that it was lack of preparation,intellegence, or just a poor speaker. I think its all irrelevent though to be honest who was more prepared but the issues brought up in the debate. I copied the excert that i don't agree with kerry on.

"

Page 2 of 2

Kerry Says Security Comes First

Kerry said he would immediately begin bilateral negotiations with North Korea -- a goal the Pyongyang government has long sought. But, perhaps in a nod to the sensitivities of the Japanese, the South Koreans and the Chinese, he said he would not abandon the six-nation talks.

"I would keep them both going," Kerry said. "I would do the six-party [talks], but I would engage in bilateral discussions."

The Bush administration has argued that bilateral talks would reward North Korea for its behavior, and has contended that it is necessary to include the other nations to ensure a regional solution. Kerry declined to say what he would offer North Korea as inducements to give up its weapons but said he would be willing to discuss a broad agenda that includes reducing troop levels on the Korean peninsula, replacing the armistice that ended the Korean War and even reunifying North and South Korea.

Kerry said Bush has made a serious mistake by not talking directly with Pyongyang. Of the North Korean leader, he said his advisers -- such as former defense secretary William J. Perry and former national security adviser Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger -- told him that when they were in the Clinton administration "they had no illusion that Kim Jong Il was probably cheating over here and [creating] trouble over there, but they were getting the process of a dialogue to get a verification structure."

"You are better off engaged in that effort than disengaged," Kerry said. "

korea

I personally don't think that kerry would be able to unify north and south korea and i agree that we do need china's leverage to give up there weapons. I do see korea as a threat more so then iraq but i understand that we can't stop the war in iraq until were finished beause of all our lost troops and billions of dollars invested in that 3rd world country. I just don't think we have the amount of troops to carefully watch over these other countrys that do have WMD and the means to use them. I just hope they get this treaty made up(if not already, i haven't heard anything recent about the issue.) and they stick to it. CNN

 

[Gauntlet 5,000+ posts]

But, for example......Kerry originally signed in favor of the bill for the $87 billion for in Iraqi/Afgahnistan reconstruction and war efforts, then when it came time to finalize the bill he signed against it. People accused him of flip flopping. Well, he wasn't flip flopping at all. He was all for giving the money, which is why he originally signed in favor......but when the final bill came around, the didn't agree with how the money was being spent, so he didn't sign. Yet people still try to use that against him.

He also said it was a mistake and he didn't mean to vote against it. He's not going to sit in front of 60 million people and say he didn't want money to be given in support of the troops, he's going to rationalize his actions and put a positive spin on it. "Hey look, I want to support our troops and I can admit I made a mistake! Vote for me!" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

As mrray said, he's the quintessential politician.

 

[nosaj070 10+ year member]

LOL just playing shrapner.... Now about the debates last night, well i didn't watch all it because of homework, but from what i watched this is what i gathered. Bush stumbled on alot of his thoughts, which i guess you can argue that it was lack of preparation,intellegence, or just a poor speaker. I think its all irrelevent though to be honest who was more prepared but the issues brought up in the debate. I copied the excert that i don't agree with kerry on."

Page 2 of 2

Kerry Says Security Comes First

Kerry said he would immediately begin bilateral negotiations with North Korea -- a goal the Pyongyang government has long sought. But, perhaps in a nod to the sensitivities of the Japanese, the South Koreans and the Chinese, he said he would not abandon the six-nation talks.

"I would keep them both going," Kerry said. "I would do the six-party [talks], but I would engage in bilateral discussions."

The Bush administration has argued that bilateral talks would reward North Korea for its behavior, and has contended that it is necessary to include the other nations to ensure a regional solution. Kerry declined to say what he would offer North Korea as inducements to give up its weapons but said he would be willing to discuss a broad agenda that includes reducing troop levels on the Korean peninsula, replacing the armistice that ended the Korean War and even reunifying North and South Korea.

Kerry said Bush has made a serious mistake by not talking directly with Pyongyang. Of the North Korean leader, he said his advisers -- such as former defense secretary William J. Perry and former national security adviser Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger -- told him that when they were in the Clinton administration "they had no illusion that Kim Jong Il was probably cheating over here and [creating] trouble over there, but they were getting the process of a dialogue to get a verification structure."

"You are better off engaged in that effort than disengaged," Kerry said. "

korea

I personally don't think that kerry would be able to unify north and south korea and i agree that we do need china's leverage to give up there weapons. I do see korea as a threat more so then iraq but i understand that we can't stop the war in iraq until were finished beause of all our lost troops and billions of dollars invested in that 3rd world country. I just don't think we have the amount of troops to carefully watch over these other countrys that do have WMD and the means to use them. I just hope they get this treaty made up(if not already, i haven't heard anything recent about the issue.) and they stick to it. CNN

The other amusing part, I aplogize if I missed something, didn't feel like reading all of that. Clinton tried bi-lateral talks, they didn't work for shit. He sent them a shitload of money, in the billions to develop working nuclear power plants, whatta ya know they spent it on nuclear weapons. Talking with Pyongyang is a waste of time, he is a nut, and the whole world knows it. Bush did the smart thing and got 5 other countries like china and other surrounding, powerful countries to box north korea in. North Korea is not really a threat, granted they could launch a few nukes off, but I highly doubt they ever would, North Korea in its whole entirety would be blown to hell faster tahn you could blink your eyes. Kerry obviously wants to tell the people that he will do everything he can to avoid war, and many times they're ludacris. North Korea is nearly imploding, half the nation is nearly dead, Pyongyang won't be able to carry on much longer.

 

[zane 10+ year member]

Most of his "flip flops" were a change in decision based off of new information or changing circumstances, not indecisiveness. We're all in trouble if the person in the White House is so "set in their ways" that they stand by their decision, even if it is now the wrong decision.

Really? Like Voting to send our troops to war, and then voting against giving them the funding for supplies?

Seems irrational, and careless to me.

Sending troops to war and then saying they can not have armor.

But if it's based all on new information; hey............

At least the person currently in the White House has a backbone, and finishes what he begins rather than runs away.

In what way was the decision to go into Iraq Wrong?

Sarin & Mustard Gas were found. WMD's

Mass Graves were found.

A ruthless dictator was removed from power.

Millions of Iraqi People are liberated.

But hey, I suppose it was wrong to do that too...... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

And again, I'm against Bush due to his inability to separate his religion from his job as America's president, but I'm not really "for" Kerry

Separation of Church & State has gone incredibly further than I believe the framers of our constitution intended it.

That is another issue however. In this situation regarding Mr. Bush,

How has he not separated those issues?

Are you now forced to be a Christian?

Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush both ended their closing statements in the debate, and at most stops along the campaign trail with the words "God Bless."

Yep, he sure isn't separating them.

 

[zane 10+ year member]

And an individual who's too stubborn to admit that he's done a few things wrong, won't respect the opinions of other countries, and and won't change plans that clearly haven't worked has a place in the White House?

Hrmm, let's see. So now we need to tip toe on eggshells and humbly seek permission of the rest of the world to remove a threat?

For God's sake, we are the United States of America. Listen to yourself.

Which plans have not worked? You made the claim, now elaborate.

 

[zane 10+ year member]

But, for example......Kerry originally signed in favor of the bill for the $87 billion for in Iraqi/Afgahnistan reconstruction and war efforts, then when it came time to finalize the bill he signed against it. People accused him of flip flopping. Well, he wasn't flip flopping at all. He was all for giving the money, which is why he originally signed in favor......but when the final bill came around, the didn't agree with how the money was being spent, so he didn't sign. Yet people still try to use that against him.

That was a flip flop.

That action was completely idiotic.

Fact is, he voted to put troops into combat, then denied them money for supplies.

Coming from a family with strong military backgrounds, and having several friends in Iraq, and returning from Iraq; this is unexcusable.

Kerry has always had a weak record on defense. Aparently, that is one thing that hasn't changed.

 

[zane 10+ year member]

He also said it was a mistake and he didn't mean to vote against it. He's not going to sit in front of 60 million people and say he didn't want money to be given in support of the troops, he's going to rationalize his actions and put a positive spin on it. "Hey look, I want to support our troops and I can admit I made a mistake! Vote for me!" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
As mrray said, he's the quintessential politician.

Yes yes, it was "not articulate speaking" and it was "late in the evening" on a "tiring campaign day."

Allthough, Mr. Kerry said He voted for the $87 Billion before he voted against it about Mid day.

BWwwaaaaa! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Gauntlet 5,000+ posts]

*brain explodes*

 

[zane 10+ year member]

The other amusing part, I aplogize if I missed something, didn't feel like reading all of that. Clinton tried bi-lateral talks, they didn't work for shit. He sent them a shitload of money, in the billions to develop working nuclear power plants, whatta ya know they spent it on nuclear weapons. Talking with Pyongyang is a waste of time, he is a nut, and the whole world knows it. Bush did the smart thing and got 5 other countries like china and other surrounding, powerful countries to box north korea in.

Very True.

Funny, the left whines about not involving other countries with military decisions, and when Mr. Bush does involve other countries, the left still cries foul and wants to do the opposite.

Liberalism- hypocrisy at it's best.

The Democratic Party appears to be imploding before our very eyes.

 

[zane 10+ year member]

*brain explodes*

Ice Cream?

 

[Gauntlet 5,000+ posts]

Ice Cream?

The ice cream just froze my brain, trying to find a rational thought process within Kerry's meandering platform is what exploded it.

 

[zane 10+ year member]

The ice cream just froze my brain, trying to find a rational thought process within Kerry's meandering platform is what exploded it.

Don't think you'll get too far with that one man. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I especially like the part where Mr. Kerry criticized Mr. Bush's spending in Iraq, and then subsequently said he would commit as many billions ($$) as it takes to win in Iraq, when asked what he would do in Iraq.

I think that is about the most lucid thinking you can hope for from Mr. Kerry.

 

[Gauntlet 5,000+ posts]

He also criticizes Bush for having a large deficit, but in the same breath wants to reduce taxes for the middle class, thusly raising the debt further.