Current events discussion

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Nothing to do with the pandemic

Did I say those corrections weren't associated with the pandemic? I'm 110% sure I've posted in this thread that those market corrections were due to the pandemic. As a matter of fact, I'm 110% sure I posted that information in response to you laying the 2020 market loses at Trump's feet, but now you post "Nothing to do with the pandemic." Schrodinger's Liberal in full effect.

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

My bad, by historic I thought you meant in terms of market correction, not who could be blamed for the market correction. I think it's more of somebody or something triggering an overdue market correction. Personally, I don't find it troubling since there was really no "real" reason for the market react like it has since 2019/2020. Long term, the market (S&P 500) is returning to the pre 2019 trend line. There is probably some room for the market to dip below that trend line as countries/businesses adopt to the fact that Trump is attempting to bring jobs back to America.

The political question/gamble is the ~80% of people that really don't participate in the stock market willing to watch the other 20% suffer loses which in most cases aren't really loses but a reduction in long term gains in hopes that the long term prospect of jobs is worth it. OTOH, the gamble the left has to take is portray what is happening as historically disastrous, part of some fascist take over, etc. That said I think the left's gamble has pretty decent odds since American's are notoriously short sided and Trump's gamble is a long play. Ultimately, for Trump's plans to work, they need to maintain power in Congress and the White House. If the left regains power, it's safe to assume they'll eliminate tariffs and trade jobs for cheaper goods. What do American's really want? Are younger voters patient enough to wait for the return on investment that the right offers?

Nothing short sighted about it. Manufacturing isn't coming back to the states in significant amounts because labor costs still make most of lower quality (and cheaper) goods that Americans want, too expensive to produce here.

But even so.....this is a dumb talking point that you are taking Trump's word for. It's in complete conflict of Trump dismantling the Biden admin CHIPS Act that was set up to promote semiconductor manufacturing here in the states because........? Most likely because no advancement is more important than a grudge that Trump holds....and obviously losing the 2020 election to Biden is a grudge that he cannot get over. Much like his grudge against Obama and windmills. Trump is a petty loser and is dragging the country and much of the world through the mud because of it.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Does this idiot actually believe this crap, or just hope that his followers believe it?

How is us paying more taxes (paraphrased) "bringing money in to the USA"?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

A post where he says absolutely nothing of value. And his sycophants cheer.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

My bad, by historic I thought you meant in terms of market correction, not who could be blamed for the market correction. I think it's more of somebody or something triggering an overdue market correction. Personally, I don't find it troubling since there was really no "real" reason for the market react like it has since 2019/2020. Long term, the market (S&P 500) is returning to the pre 2019 trend line. There is probably some room for the market to dip below that trend line as countries/businesses adopt to the fact that Trump is attempting to bring jobs back to America.

The political question/gamble is the ~80% of people that really don't participate in the stock market willing to watch the other 20% suffer loses which in most cases aren't really loses but a reduction in long term gains in hopes that the long term prospect of jobs is worth it. OTOH, the gamble the left has to take is portray what is happening as historically disastrous, part of some fascist take over, etc. That said I think the left's gamble has pretty decent odds since American's are notoriously short sided and Trump's gamble is a long play. Ultimately, for Trump's plans to work, they need to maintain power in Congress and the White House. If the left regains power, it's safe to assume they'll eliminate tariffs and trade jobs for cheaper goods. What do American's really want? Are younger voters patient enough to wait for the return on investment that the right offers?

60% of adults in the US are directly involved in the stock market in some way. Then there are all the ones indirectly involved (working for employers that are publicly traded, etc).
Where do you come up with this "~80%" number of people not involved?

It's estimated that 130,000 people retire each year. 130,000 people retiring in the next 365 days, who are now watching their 401K, 403B, mutual funds, etc, go into the toilet.
"Hey retirees, just hang in there for 5-10 more years, for your retirement funds to recover"

Meanwhile, company stocks are getting devalued. Price drops lead to selloffs. Selloffs lead to fewer people investing. Fewer people investing leads to less money for expansion, maybe even contraction as the company braces for hard times. Financing lanes get tighter. Dividends are likely to fall, making the stock even less attractive. Long-term returns suffer, pushing more sellloffs.

MAGA winning?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

View attachment 64458

A post where he says absolutely nothing of value. And his sycophants cheer.

It is something that should have been addressed decades ago and it will take patient.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

60% of adults in the US are directly involved in the stock market in some way. Then there are all the ones indirectly involved (working for employers that are publicly traded, etc).
Where do you come up with this "~80%" number of people not involved?

It's estimated that 130,000 people retire each year. 130,000 people retiring in the next 365 days, who are now watching their 401K, 403B, mutual funds, etc, go into the toilet.
"Hey retirees, just hang in there for 5-10 more years, for your retirement funds to recover"

Meanwhile, company stocks are getting devalued. Price drops lead to selloffs. Selloffs lead to fewer people investing. Fewer people investing leads to less money for expansion, maybe even contraction as the company braces for hard times. Financing lanes get tighter. Dividends are likely to fall, making the stock even less attractive. Long-term returns suffer, pushing more sellloffs.

MAGA winning?

~80% because even though many people are in the market, they're not really participating. Top 1% own ~50% of the market. Top 10% own ~90% of the market. But most importantly, are people like me who own ~10% of the market willing to take a ~5-10% hit if that means bringing jobs back to the US for my children & grandchildren? Are we willing to be patient with the process? It took decades to do this to our economy, it's gonna take a decade to unwind these issues. OTOH, the global oligarchy could wait Trump out and their willing allies on the left will be happy to return to the status quo.

Is the stock market (S&P 500) returning to the growth rate established under Obama really that bad of a thing???

Share of Corporate Equities and Mutual Fund Shares Held by the Top 1% (99th to 100th Wealth Percentiles)

Graph and download economic data for Share of Corporate Equities and Mutual Fund Shares Held by the Top 1% (99th to 100th Wealth Percentiles) (WFRBST01122) from Q3 1989 to Q3 2025 about mutual funds, wealth, equity, percentile, corporate, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

~80% because even though many people are in the market, they're not really participating. Top 1% own ~50% of the market. Top 10% own ~90% of the market. But most importantly, are people like me who own ~10% of the market willing to take a ~5-10% hit if that means bringing jobs back to the US for my children & grandchildren? Are we willing to be patient with the process? It took decades to do this to our economy, it's gonna take a decade to unwind these issues. OTOH, the global oligarchy could wait Trump out and their willing allies on the left will be happy to return to the status quo.

Is the stock market (S&P 500) returning to the growth rate established under Obama really that bad of a thing???

Share of Corporate Equities and Mutual Fund Shares Held by the Top 1% (99th to 100th Wealth Percentiles)

Graph and download economic data for Share of Corporate Equities and Mutual Fund Shares Held by the Top 1% (99th to 100th Wealth Percentiles) (WFRBST01122) from Q3 1989 to Q3 2025 about mutual funds, wealth, equity, percentile, corporate, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

If you are in the market, you are "participating". Just because they are not day trading, does not mean they are "not participating".
The market is down

Do you actually think tanking our markets is going to bring jobs back to the US? How do you think companies raise money for startup or growth? INVESTMENT.
What jobs do you think are going to rush back to the US for your kids and grandkids? What new business will start up to create jobs that are now elsewhere?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

It is something that should have been addressed decades ago and it will take patient.

Hahahaha. WHAT should have been "addressed" decades ago?
"THIS"? OK...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

If you are in the market, you are "participating". Just because they are not day trading, does not mean they are "not participating".
The market is down

Do you actually think tanking our markets is going to bring jobs back to the US? How do you think companies raise money for startup or growth? INVESTMENT.
What jobs do you think are going to rush back to the US for your kids and grandkids? What new business will start up to create jobs that are now elsewhere?

I mean not participating as in the vast majority of US have next to nothing in the market, which is pretty clear.

I don't think Trump is tanking the markets. The markets have returned to the trend line established during the Obama years. The S&P500 grew ~50% while Obama was in office. The S&P has ~tripled in value since Obama left office. This is a long overdue correction.

What jobs can return to the US. Auto manufacturing, auto parts, IC/semiconductors, clothing - to keep it short, all the jobs that left the US. I don't see Trump doing anything about call centers, but it'd be great to see those jobs return to the US. But I get, the left doesn't want jobs for the future generations, but they'll have gov't programs. For some reason, the left thinks that's the way societies are built.

 

[Eggs 5,000+ posts]

Sad…. Maybe HRC was cleaning up something? Apparently they still not releasing the Seth rich laptop.

 

[Eggs 5,000+ posts]

Bring the pain

 

[Eggs 5,000+ posts]

I can see someone trying building hop in NYC @Buck

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

I mean not participating as in the vast majority of US have next to nothing in the market, which is pretty clear.

Where are you getting that stat from?
Gallup info:
"In 2023, the percentages owning stock range from highs of 84% of adults in households earning $100,000 or more and about eight in 10 college graduates and postgraduates to a low of 29% of those in households earning less than $40,000."
"As of 2021, the top 10 percent of Americans owned an average of $969,000 in stocks. The next 40 percent owned $132,000 on average. For the bottom half of families, it was just under $54,000."
People making less than $40K, with over $50K invested

I don't think Trump is tanking the markets. The markets have returned to the trend line established during the Obama years. The S&P500 grew ~50% while Obama was in office. The S&P has ~tripled in value since Obama left office. This is a long overdue correction.

"Returned to the trend"? The trend under Obama was growth from day one.
The market is tanking now.

OBAMA:

• Starting Value: 7,949.09
• High Point: 19,974.62 on Dec. 20, 2016
• Low Point: 6,547.05 on March 9, 2009
• Ending Value: 19,732.40
• Performance While in Office: 148.23% increase

What jobs can return to the US. Auto manufacturing, auto parts, IC/semiconductors, clothing - to keep it short, all the jobs that left the US. I don't see Trump doing anything about call centers, but it'd be great to see those jobs return to the US. But I get, the left doesn't want jobs for the future generations, but they'll have gov't programs. For some reason, the left thinks that's the way societies are built.

"It'd be great" is not a business plan, or even an idea of a plan.
To get the manufacturing back here, we have to do it at competitive pricing, but also at competitive wages. So we pay Billy a living wage to make widgets that sell for less than the cost of production in order for Billy to afford them?
Or do we underpay Billy to make a product that he then cannot afford to buy, because the company owner needs to net $3,000,000 per minute?

Funny that you bring up the left and "gov't programs", when it's the red states that take more back than they give.
"Most/least federally dependent states The ranking is based on three key metrics: return on taxes to the federal government, share of federal jobs, and the share of federal funding as state revenue. Using these metrics, WalletHub reports the top 10 most federally-dependent states are: Alaska, Kentucky, West Virginia, Mississippi, South Carolina, New Mexico, Louisiana, Arizona, Indiana, Alabama
And the 10 least federally-dependent states are: New Jersey, California, Delaware, Massachusetts, Utah, Kansas, Washington, Illinois, Colorado, Iowa"

And that lefty state California has the biggest economy of any state in the US. So big, that if CA was a country unto its own, it would be the 4th biggest in the WORLD.
Seems the left is footing the bill for the right, not the other way 'round.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

$9.2 trillion lost in the stock market.
PROSPERITY!
MAGA winning!