Can DLS Ultimate amps compete with Arc's XXK line ?

[blue 10+ year member]

I'm trying to help a friend make a time sensitive decision , and I've never heard the DLS Ultimate amps. He has a chance to buy one of these amps , and needs to have some opinions. He's looking at Arc Audio's XXK offerings , or DLS Ultimate. Power will be the same, and he's looking for LOUD sound quality ....

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[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

if he needs 2ohm stable bridged chs...for whatever reason -the DLS

Otherwise the xxk4150 looks better on paper powerwise than the A4.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

BTW your friend wouldn't need a pair of A6's to compete with an xxk2500....a single A6 will do 1200 watts, just at 1ohm being a mono design. While the xxk will do so at 4ohm. Both amps class a/b's.

It just a matter of what he needs. I myself prefer all the juice at 4ohm/2ohm stereo the lowest and integrate my subs around that. Spend all this $$ for quality amplifier, you want all that power at its lowest capable thd levels and highest control, where it works confy. I mean why else buy an expensive amplifier? Thats my logic behind it anyhow.

 

[blue 10+ year member]

BTW your friend wouldn't need a pair of A6's to compete with an xxk2500....a single A6 will do 1200 watts, just at 1ohm being a mono design. While the xxk will do so at 4ohm. Both amps class a/b's.
It just a matter of what he needs. I myself prefer all the juice at 4ohm/2ohm stereo the lowest and integrate my subs around that. Spend all this $$ for quality amplifier, you want all that power at its lowest capable thd levels and highest control, where it works confy. I mean why else buy an expensive amplifier? Thats my logic behind it anyhow.

Well .... It's a matter of his wanting to run the subs stereo. The 2500XXK does a massive 500 wpch at 2 ohm stereo , he would need two A3amps to accomplish that.

I'm leaning HARD at the Arc amps as my reccomendation to him .... although many say it doesn't matter , the Arc's damping factor just destroyes the A3's ....

Edited for correct specs , sorry bout that

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

well johnecon2001 claims he benched his cxl2500 to do 1,245 rms...so they are a tad underated from their 1050bridged rating.

Stereo is the way i have my subs running off my 2500....individual gains pair side. Its neat- on my deck using the T/A i can control the output individually L/R from each sub-nice for level matching-not only from the amp itself, but from the deck since you can control each channel. Sometimes I'll cut one off completly for SQ auditions. Amp rocks, i had to have two of them

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

Very Interesting Thread thanks guys!

I was planning to get the A6 to power 2 DLS Iridium 10" I just figure most subs have 4 ohm coils so either an amp that makes the most power at 4 ohm or 1 is fine, but for some reason it seems monoblock amps have better damping factors.

The ARC amp really have a better damping factor? or just on paper?

Is there really a piont in running subs in sterio Vs Mono? From what I have read, NO..

The A3 is a dual monoblock amp it would put out 1200 watts to a single 2 ohm load. Read the manual for it, Putting a 2 ohm load on that amp bridged is really the same as putting a 1 ohm load on the amp. (it's in the manual not on the website specs).

(It is only 2 ohm stable when bridged, even though it says power at 1 ohm bridged)

1200 watts to each sub might be a bit much.... (2 A3's)

1 A3 with both subs run in sterio would only give you 270 watts a channel @ 2 ohms... But willd rive 1, 2 ohm sub @ 1200 watts when bridged.

So it sounds like the ARC amp will be better for Sterio, but it seems the DLS A6/A3 is probably a better amp in that it is a top notch one ohm stable (per channel) A/B amp.

You could do 2 DLS RA10 amps, cheaper than ultimate series...Probably more similar to ARC

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

Very Interesting Thread thanks guys!

The ARC amp really have a better damping factor? or just on paper?

Yes. greater than 2000. Rob Zef has never BS'd on his designs.

The 4150 was rated greater than 2000 as well, and tested ~2300 by caraudiomag back in the day.

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

Wow it has a greater than 2000 damping factor but is not 1 ohm stable? Is the damping fator tested at 4 ohms & 1 Khz?

I see it's rated at 1 khz so what is the damping going to be runnign woofers?

I believe there are different ways to measure the damping factor is all, so it does no necessarly kill the DLS. But for wanting subs in sterio it looks like the ARC is hte best way to go.

What is the purpose in running the subs in sterio again?

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

Wow it has a greater than 2000 damping factor but is not 1 ohm stable?

Yup. Not many full ranges are, particularly given that much power at 4ohm-thats alot of heat to dissipate. I'm sure it was possible to design it that way (the A3 is 100 x 2 @ 4ohm, the A6 is sub use only- they make full power at 1ohm) but Zef figures most people want their power where the power supply will provide it optimally as far as distortion/thd levels go. For those people, the xxk2500 is a good fit.

Trust me a damp factor of 2000 at 1ohm load would be one incredible amplifier:laugh:

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

What is the purpose in running the subs in sterio again?

The same purpose to run them mono- An amp amplifies the signal...lol

A sub wont play in stereo unless the signal dictates it.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

But running mono or daisy chaining subs wont allow your subs to play in stereo IF the signal dictated it.

.

Its just a wiring flexibilty- why have to wire subs together off 1 ch, when you can wire them each to an individual channel and achieve same power 4ohm mono as 2ohm stereo? Each sub has a ch, each has a gain. wheras on a mono amp the first sub catches most the heat.

Ever listen to industrial music? Lots of people xover their subs higher than 55hz as well on top of what the slope on the xover fliters in it- there are stereo signals above that-depends on the recording.

Its just different option. For those that prefer those intricacies.

 

[Justintoxicated 10+ year member]

The same purpose to run them mono- An amp amplifies the signal...lol
A sub wont play in stereo unless the signal dictates it.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

But running mono or daisy chaining subs wont allow your subs to play in stereo IF the signal dictated it.

.

Its just a wiring flexibilty- why have to wire subs together off 1 ch, when you can wire them each to an individual channel and achieve same power 4ohm mono as 2ohm stereo? Each sub has a ch, each has a gain. wheras on a mono amp the first sub catches most the heat.

Ever listen to industrial music? Lots of people xover their subs higher than 55hz as well on top of what the slope on the xover fliters in it- there are stereo signals above that-depends on the recording.

Its just different option. For those that prefer those intricacies.

I was under the impression that sub's are not as directional @ lower frequencies cannot really be distinguished as far as location.

Why would the first sub catch all the heat if you wire them in parallel?

Plus in sterio you really need to keep each woofer in a seperate box?

Also I heard the A3 is typicaly over 150 watts x2 @ 4 ohm as they are underrated.

I was debating over an ARC amp with ARC subs or DLS amp with DLS subs and it seems I have decided to go DLS. I don't have a way to compare either though... Seems most's opinions is that the ARC stuff is good but the DLS should be better.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

I was under the impression that sub's are not as directional @ lower frequencies cannot really be distinguished as far as location..

Why would the first sub catch all the heat if you wire them in parallel?

Perhaps I'm wrong there, but one is using the first subs terminals a distro to feed another.

Plus in sterio you really need to keep each woofer in a seperate box?

Who in their right mind doesn't seal off one woofer from another?

Also I heard the A3 is typicaly over 150 watts x2 @ 4 ohm as they are underrated

.

Cool

I'm just stating the obvious differences, as to why I'd pick one over the other. Doesn't mean you have to based on my preferences. Diff strokes for dif folks -particularly at these price points. Two diff products.

DLS does make an awesome amp, a look at the board layouts indicates crazy power supply design.

Some say DLS amps are made by the build house of Genesis (although not comfirmed) I have heard they run extremely hot from some heads at ECA, apparently as they are not very large in size considering the power output, but they have a very nice chassis/heatsinks. Nothing wrong with an amp running hot anyhow (thats what the byproduct of making power is) .

I just dont need my power at 1ohm, so i look elsewhere. If I'm paying for supossed 'clean output', i want all that power and dampning as clean as possible- i mean why else pay more? If I want a 1ohm stable amp to give me 1-10% thd making full power, i might as well buy a hifonics.

 

[Phiber Optik 10+ year member]

Looking at the specs

Typical power in 1 ohm : 2 x 425 Watt

is the same as running the amp at

Typical power in 2 ohm bridge mode : 870 Watt

This is the lowest rated spec:

Typical power in 1 ohm bridge mode : 1200 watt

in theory this should be

Typical power in 0.5 ohm : 2 x 600 Watt

I'm not going to run my A3 or A6 at that low, but the ratings imply that it could be used in that configuration, I assume the heat and efficiency is the reason why it's not suggested.

 

[snb778 5,000+ posts]

ok, someone explain this to me...Why do you want a mono, or 2 channel amp in class AB....Isnt that geared more towards speakers...??

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

ok, someone explain this to me...Why do you want a mono, or 2 channel amp in class AB....Isnt that geared more towards speakers...??

last time i checked a sub was a speaker, albeit a large one:laugh:

Not long ago there weren't these cheap class d's stinking up the place...class a/b's were used for everything- and those were considered the good old days , where many copanies had quality a/b powerhouses (Orion, PPI, Kicker, Fosgate, Zapco, Linear...etc....)that put their names ablaze in the caraudio world. Now since these class d's been out, it seems everything has gone down hill past 97-98 all these manufacturers have gone the cheap route and consequently its interesting how some of those big names dont hold the same weight anymore. I've done the mono block class d's, T's-they all left me hanging from the spoiling my ZR1000 gave me...nothing compares to a 1kw of a/b power on your subs. Just gotta experience it i guess.