BTL vs Axis vs 9512 vs Alpha vs dp vs

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

If I could afford it, I'd have a massive TC/Audiopulse/Eclipse collection.

They're beastly...

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

If I could afford it, I'd have a massive TC/Audiopulse/Eclipse collection.
They're beastly...

Yea no kiddin, the LMS-Ultra would be in my setup if I had the money...or the IA Wardens.

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

lol so how much you can make your car implode is your goal? Youtube vids sure as heck dont' show any SQ, it's all about who's camera sounds the best. Specs assuming the manufacturer isnt' a liar is the only really good judge as everyone has a different car and that has a huge impact on response. Getting the best sub for your exact app and then tailoring it to your install is key. Anyway, for just playing music loudly, I'd go with the axis. It has the best features of any of the subs mentioned. It really is a full on SQ sub that is just silly overbuilt and will get loud. You can't get them new though, which is the only issue. Personally, I went with a set of AE AV15's to fill the similar bill of a pure SQ sub that can handle power and get loud, but I don't think that's correct for you in this case.

I like youtube videos because the more damage it does to a car GENERALLY the more sound pressure is being generated or at least potential there of sound pressure. my car is mildly dampened and is a pretty solid vehicle so i dont expect gorilla flex but thats not what im after anyways. if i get rattles i fix them cuz they bother me.

If i could fit 15's i would not really have an issue, 15's would easily put me in the 150db range with the power i have and i would probably have alpha 15's and be perfectly happy with them and still have only one atomic 3k.

The axis im only skeptical about because it is so much less efficient than the btl that i dont possibly see how it could be even close to as loud, if the btls wont put me in the 150s surely the axis wont either. I mean 5db is A LOT less efficient, forget about install dependent. im not sure how the omega, DP and NS compare efficiency wise but i know the dd 9512 is up there with the btl and lvl4xl i think its 90+. Also if I buy the axis im concerned with them not being as loud as my alphas were and for running 2x the power and nearly 2x the money they better be considerably louder or i will have felt like i wasted money honestly i would expect all of these subs to get louder on the same power as the alphas since they all cost a lot more and 1500 rms is still a lot of power for one sub.

In terms of prices the omega comes in at the lowest at only 389 shipped then the axis at 400 shipped then the btl and ns which are about 500 shipped. Im not sure what the lvl4xl costs though. and im waiting on a quote from rio for the DP but i would imagine both would be around 500 shipped maybe less for the xl

For a total of $200 dofference i guess if im only a db or 2 quieter than the btl's i would be happy but i honestly think the 5db efficiency lack of the axis will put me in spl ranges of the alphas which will not satisfy me.

Right now im leaning towards the omega since its the lowest cost and probably has the same potential to get as loud as the loudest of the bunch but its relatively low x max concerns me with lowend output. also the fs is not listed.

I think the NS is out though due to its high fs and 1500 rms rating, i dont think it will drop the lows like i want and i dont feel comfortable running double rated power for daily.

Same with the lvl4 xl as the NS only the fs is not bad on the xl

I think i may have found a temporary solution to my problem though. Let me know if this seems feasible or if its stupid. I am thinking of selling all the 12's i have to get some funds for a new HU which i NEED since i dont have one currently then build a box for the 15" btl and run that on a single 3k for a while. Determine if i like the way that sounds or not and if I like it Opt for a pair of 12" btl's (assuming they will sound similar to the 15 but should be louder due to more cone area and 2x the power, this assumption may be skewed though because the 15 needs to fire up and port back or to the side where as the 12's will be ports and subs forward)

If i dont like the sound of the 15btl then ill decide between the omega, axis, and dp. hopefully i will still be able to get the axis's for 400 shipped after this ordeal thats my only concern with doing this and eating up time.

 

[hoboham 10+ year member]

my 12" axis is in 2.5 in.cu. tuned to 33 hz. did a 143.7 @41hz sealed, car off, on a good usb powered meter.

1 battery, lack luster hifonics 2610D.

never got the coil stinky, but i can push it to its mechanical limits.

the box is too big, i can tell. output around 30-40hz is amazing but anything else is lost. i need to run it @ 2 cu.

but im just too lazy.

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

my 12" axis is in 2.5 in.cu. tuned to 33 hz. did a 143.7 @41hz sealed, car off, on a good usb powered meter. 1 battery, lack luster hifonics 2610D.

never got the coil stinky, but i can push it to its mechanical limits.

the box is too big, i can tell. output around 30-40hz is amazing but anything else is lost. i need to run it @ 2 cu.

but im just too lazy.

This scares me a little but you box is built over the largest spec they recommend so that may be the issue. I need solid output all the way up to at least 65hz but ive heard that a smaller box will improve the upper frequency's and as long as you tune low you will still have good low end.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

This scares me a little but you box is built over the largest spec they recommend so that may be the issue. I need solid output all the way up to at least 65hz but ive heard that a smaller box will improve the upper frequency's and as long as you tune low you will still have good low end.

The axis has more BL than the BTL. In a ported box effeciency is mostly about BL. High Bl is what allows the sub to excite the port on lower power, which is where most of your SPL comes froms near tuning. Also the axis favors a small box anyway, so given a box of similar size to the BTL, it will be more effecient anyway. Box size, port size and BL dicate effeciency down low in a ported enclosure, not the one watt rating at 1k. Heck, the one watt rating isn't even real, it's calcuated. The FI has a much higher inducatance, I bet if you measured actual output at 1000hz at 1k the axis would stomp the BTL, just due to the faraday rings. Granted that's not the point, but just something to consider. Anyway you can't really improve woofers output up top by changing box size. If a sealed box gets really tiny the q can go high enough to make a little hump, but that's about it. Making the box smaller simply cuts off low end which makes your top end more apparent. A small ported box tuned low can lead to a fairly flat response though. If I was you I'd get a basic program like winisd, figure out how much space you have and actually model these. All the subs are nice, but you can get at least a basic idea of what type of curve you'll get with a given amount of airspace.

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

The axis has more BL than the BTL. In a ported box effeciency is mostly about BL. High Bl is what allows the sub to excite the port on lower power, which is where most of your SPL comes froms near tuning. Also the axis favors a small box anyway, so given a box of similar size to the BTL, it will be more effecient anyway. Box size, port size and BL dicate effeciency down low in a ported enclosure, not the one watt rating at 1k. Heck, the one watt rating isn't even real, it's calcuated. The FI has a much higher inducatance, I bet if you measured actual output at 1000hz at 1k the axis would stomp the BTL, just due to the faraday rings. Granted that's not the point, but just something to consider. Anyway you can't really improve woofers output up top by changing box size. If a sealed box gets really tiny the q can go high enough to make a little hump, but that's about it. Making the box smaller simply cuts off low end which makes your top end more apparent. A small ported box tuned low can lead to a fairly flat response though. If I was you I'd get a basic program like winisd, figure out how much space you have and actually model these. All the subs are nice, but you can get at least a basic idea of what type of curve you'll get with a given amount of airspace.

so basically ince the axis has poor top end i should steer away from it?

i modeled the btl and its terrible massive peak around tuning everywhere else blows. the axis models similar to the alpha but with worse top from tuning and up. at and below tuning tis pretty much the same.

 

[soundstreamer 10+ year member]

If you already have the Alphas...I definitely suggest them. They would in turn be the cheapest. I do 151s on music with a set of 12" Alpha Maxs with half the power you have on tap.

 

[KHARPS 10+ year member]

If you already have the Alphas...I definitely suggest them. They would in turn be the cheapest. I do 151s on music with a set of 12" Alpha Maxs with half the power you have on tap.

Sealed up in the truck?

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

the audiopulse subs aren't great ported box designs.. if i had to choose it would probably be the BTL wit hte high xmax coil daily option... its going to sound OK at best but its going to handle the power and drop the lowest.. no need for more than 2.5 per woofer thats plenty ESP with 40in^2 of port area per woofer.. id suggest tuning to around 30-32.. your not going to get great extention past 26hz or so.. if you want it your going to loose alot of output i mean alot.. the alphas are simply way out the picture..

so sell the dd and the alphas and get 2 BTLs with the high xmax coil cooling and daily option...

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

There is a lot of inaccurate info in this topic. There is so much that is install dependent, and there are too many variances in design and intent of these drivers.

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

im just gonna build a generic box that will hopefully work with any pair of 12's i put in it. gonna build it common chamber, 4.5 cubes before sub and bracing displacements, tuned to 32 hz before sub and bracing displacements and use 70" port area. i know it wont be ideal for the alphas or axis since it will be a little big but the btl's, dp's, and omegas should do good in it.

ill run my alphas till they sell on just one 3k and once they sell ill finally give my btl a test. if i like the btl ill run it on both 3k's (its a d2 so only 4krms) and it should last me pretty long but once it cooks ill recone it to a 12 and run a pair. If i dont like the btl sound ill sell it (Should know quickly if it sounds good to me or not so it will still be pretty much new when i list it) and probably get the axis's.

 

[mendon mafia 10+ year member]

hate to bring this thread back from the dead but what about the orion HCCA. its only 390 shipped. weighs 77 lbs has got to be a beast. Not many vids on youtube but seems like it would do alright. will it take 3000 rms daily you think?

will the other subs i listed be better in sq and/or output?

 

[loud-n-low 10+ year member]

hate to bring this thread back from the dead but what about the orion HCCA. its only 390 shipped. weighs 77 lbs has got to be a beast. Not many vids on youtube but seems like it would do alright. will it take 3000 rms daily you think?
will the other subs i listed be better in sq and/or output?

I was very dissapointed with the HCCA, as were others as well iirc.

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

I was very dissapointed with the HCCA, as were others as well iirc.

Yea, I thought about going that way too but too many users were saying that they lack in the lows, sound terrible and too "peaky". So my interrests went else where...