Brutal Punishment Man v God

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Disturbed it's real bro.John 1New King James Version (NKJV)

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word' date=' and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Of course you already know this.[/quote']

Circular logic is circular. Something is true... because it says it is true.

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

Circular logic is circular. Something is true... because it says it is true.

That's is exactly why I use deductive reasoning.

You see Jacob there is only truth in God's word. It is infallible, inerrant, immutable and unadulterated.

Now you can deny the truth by turning your back on it. Dr.J Vernon McGee says it best here.

"God won't let you go all until you turn your back on the truth in order that It might be seen who you are The Lord will let you go all my beloved after you turn your back on the truth.

There is no power, philosophical ideology, or person that can deny Jesus Christ is Lord. Even satan and his demons worship him.

Luke 4:8

And Jesus answered and said to him "Get behind Me, Satan!For it is written 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

Now Jacob I know and respect Agnostics and Aetheists. It is their beliefs I question.

How is the Buddhist thing working out for you anyways?

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

That's is exactly why I use deductive reasoning.
You see Jacob there is only truth in God's word. It is infallible, inerrant, immutable and unadulterated.

Now you can deny the truth by turning your back on it. Dr.J Vernon McGee says it best here.

"God won't let you go all until you turn your back on the truth in order that It might be seen who you are The Lord will let you go all my beloved after you turn your back on the truth.

There is no power, philosophical ideology, or person that can deny Jesus Christ is Lord. Even satan and his demons worship him.

Luke 4:8

And Jesus answered and said to him "Get behind Me, Satan!For it is written 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

Try again... still citing the Bible to prove the Bible is true. Circular.

Here let me try that...

1) The sky is purple. This is the truth that nobody can deny!

2) The sky is purple because it is written above and it is the truth that nobody can deny!

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

Try again... still citing the Bible to prove the Bible is true. Circular.
Here let me try that...

1) The sky is purple. This is the truth that nobody can deny!

2) The sky is purple because it is written above and it is the truth that nobody can deny!

Are the premises more plausibly true than not? because if they are then the conclusion is logically unavoidable.

If your waiting for the Good Lord to reveal himself by coming down to earth and smacking you silly you may have to wait a while Jacob.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Are the premises more plausibly true than not? because if they are then the conclusion is logically unavoidable.
If your waiting for the Good Lord to reveal himself by coming down to earth and smacking you silly you may have to wait a while Jacob.

I am no more waiting for that then I am waiting for the other 10s of thousands of Gods worshiped in human history to come down and smack me in the face.

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

I am no more waiting for that then I am waiting for the other 10s of thousands of Gods worshiped in human history to come down and smack me in the face.

So are you a Naturalist or an Atheist? If not either of those would you please state for the record your belief system? I can see your determined to make a spectacle of yourself.

All I am trying to do is be objective in my argument for Christ. In doing so I am quoting his word. Now your subjectiveness is quite apparent.

What exactly is going on with you?

 

[Massive spl]

So are you a Naturalist or an Atheist? If not either of those would you please state for the record your belief system? I can see your determined to make a spectacle of yourself.All I am trying to do is be objective in my argument for Christ. In doing so I am quoting his word. Now your subjectiveness is quite apparent.

What exactly is going on with you?

Jacob is God. End of thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wacky.gif.cf4a48f9e6dfe9504ffd2c946fd2f340.gif

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

Jacob is God. End of thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wacky.gif.cf4a48f9e6dfe9504ffd2c946fd2f340.gif

He is a god this I know(notice the small"g"). He is a god of caraudio.com.

He is equal to the god of facebook, allah and buddha.

I'm here to proclam the Most High God of Israel, the God of Abraham.

Since Jacob is a god of caraudio.com and is worshiped here shouldn't all his followers be given his product free of charge shipping included. That would be the best false god in history since he has the power to make that happen.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

So are you a Naturalist or an Atheist? If not either of those would you please state for the record your belief system? I can see your determined to make a spectacle of yourself.All I am trying to do is be objective in my argument for Christ. In doing so I am quoting his word. Now your subjectiveness is quite apparent.

What exactly is going on with you?

Your argument is far from objective or logical -- it is purely circular reasoning. Referencing a given text to prove the validity of that same text is not valid logic nor is it objective.

Now... you can definitely say that "I believe the Bible because I have faith in it." -- that is an opinion... but it's not logical or objective. I have no problem with someone having faith (assuming they aren't all up in my face) -- but saying faith is objective or logical is wrong.

I won't say I'm an Atheist or a Naturalist because I cannot prove that NO supernatural beings exist at all... it's also not logical to simply believe in something simply because you cannot disprove it.

I don't completely buy into any religion that exists today or has ever existed. Many of them teach very nice moral lessons that I agree with, many of them have excellent philosophical points that I enjoy & may even agree with -- I really enjoy a great deal of Buddhist philosophy but I'm not a Buddhist because I do not believe the entire religious system therein... not one system strikes me as being *completely* logical, objective, or provable.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Jacob is God. End of thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wacky.gif.cf4a48f9e6dfe9504ffd2c946fd2f340.gif

Haha! If a god of speakers exists I just had a meeting with him two weekends ago (Mr. Dan Wiggins) -- in terms of speakers I always feel like I know nothing when we have a good sit-down meeting.

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

Your argument is far from objective or logical -- it is purely circular reasoning. Referencing a given text to prove the validity of that same text is not valid logic nor is it objective.
Now... you can definitely say that "I believe the Bible because I have faith in it." -- that is an opinion... but it's not logical or objective. I have no problem with someone having faith (assuming they aren't all up in my face) -- but saying faith is objective or logical is wrong.

I won't say I'm an Atheist or a Naturalist because I cannot prove that NO supernatural beings exist at all... it's also not logical to simply believe in something simply because you cannot disprove it.

I don't completely buy into any religion that exists today or has ever existed. Many of them teach very nice moral lessons that I agree with, many of them have excellent philosophical points that I enjoy & may even agree with -- I really enjoy a great deal of Buddhist philosophy but I'm not a Buddhist because I do not believe the entire religious system therein... not one system strikes me as being *completely* logical, objective, or provable.

I see where your coming from.

Question: "What are some examples of circular reasoning in issues that Christians debate?"

Answer: Simply put, circular reasoning is an attempt to support a statement or claim by repeating it in different or stronger terms. Circular reasoning is false logic, and it shows up in many fields where assumptions and presuppositions are made. A classic example is the evolutionist’s dating of fossils according to the rock strata they are found in, while at the same time dating the strata according to the “index fossils” they contain. Dating a rock based on the fossil it contains only works if it is assumed that evolution is true. As one paleontologist admitted, “For most biologists, the strongest reason for accepting the evolutionary hypothesis is their acceptance of some theory that entails it” (David G. Kitts, “Paleontology and Evolutionary Theory,” in Evolution, September 1974, p. 466).

Christians, too, sometimes resort to circular reasoning. The statement “I believe the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true” may make perfect sense to a believer—it is a faith-based statement—but in a logical argument it would be considered circular reasoning. The claim uses its claim to prove its claim. Skeptics and critics of Christianity often allege that Christians use circular reasoning to defend their biblical beliefs. Such criticisms are largely untrue; however, we should be careful to use valid reasoning methods in support of truth.

Another example of circular reasoning relates to God’s existence. Some Christians have argued that God exists because the Bible says God exists—and, since God wrote the Bible, it must be true. This argument is problematic from a purely logical standpoint since it bases belief in God’s existence on the Christian belief that the Bible comes from God.

The Bible does assume the existence of God, and it does claim to be the truth (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 33:4). Those statements must be taken on faith, which should surprise no one. The Bible says faith is required. Without faith, it is impossible to please God, and faith is the foundation of the Christian life (Hebrews 11:6; Romans 1:17).

At the same time, there are many solid, logical arguments to build a plausible case for Christian belief. The existence of God can be deduced from the existence of creation (Psalm 19:1), and the veracity of the Bible through historical evidences (John 10:37–38). Circular reasoning is unnecessary. We can utilize a combination of biblical data, logical reasoning, philosophy, and historical and scientific evidence to present the best possible case regarding Christian teaching. Many Christian authors have written defenses of the faith, including C. S. Lewis, Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel, Norman Geisler, and more.

The Bible challenges Christians to be prepared to explain the hope we have. “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander” (1 Peter 3:15–16).

Ultimately, the Bible must be accepted by faith, and it is only the Word of God that has the power to change lives (John 17:17). Can a person be brought closer to the truth through logical reasoning? Yes. Can a person accept the truth of Christianity without faith? No.

Recommended Resources: I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norm Geisler and Frank Turek and Logos Bible Software.

Your absolutely right Jacob

Never thought to invoke humility.

My hope is my arrogance was not offensive to you.

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

Delete

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

I suppose we mostly agree at this point then about the only real point of contention =)

Faith is necessary for any belief system we've discussed -- be it Christianity or Atheism or anything in between. This is why I subscribe to none of them because I am not willing to have that level of faith to say that "something" supernatural *definitely* exists or *definitely does NOT* exist.

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

I suppose we mostly agree at this point then about the only real point of contention =)
Faith is necessary for any belief system we've discussed -- be it Christianity or Atheism or anything in between. This is why I subscribe to none of them because I am not willing to have that level of faith to say that "something" supernatural *definitely* exists or *definitely does NOT* exist.

That outlook I can definitely respect.

If I do get the itch again I'd be proud to rock an sa8v2 powered by a sax1200. Best little setup I've had.

 

[™Caveman 10+ year member]

That outlook I can definitely respect.If I do get the itch again I'd be proud to rock an sa8v2 powered by a sax1200. Best little setup I've had.

I do see a sa8v2 d2 in the yard sale //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif