Been doing a TON of research on charging system, now need experts!

[reneeb7363 10+ year member]

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Thank GAWD! someone actually does research.... some good info on here guys, THANK YOU!

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

think in terms of the size of the load. only time i ever heard of needing the power for minutes in spl is in death matches (5 min) and alot of guys i know dont even charge during a whole finals event. im by no means taking away the importance of an alt either but in alot of arguements people say get a regular battery and a 200 amp alt. some alts dont do rated power until you are at highway speeds so at idle you 200 amp alt is say 80-100 amps you have a 2000-2500 watt system with a regular duralast 18 miliohm low reserve battery it would not be very good on the battery at low speeds / idle and definatley not good for parking and showing off your system with the engine off. in my days believe it or not i have or have seen stuff get pretty muffed by not having the right battery and thrashing entirely too much with the stereo vs what you have to support it.

As long as the alternator matches the load, the size of the battery is only significant to starting the car. It should have almost no discharge during the entire time the car is running. If the alternator is rated for really low output at idle, then someone needs to adjust the throttle or have the alt wound differently.

A second battery is definitely good for when the car is off, and it’s a completely different situation.

 

[dflw_99 10+ year member]

lol this is the post that never ends

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

so you are saying that a second battery wouldnt help or even get tapped into if you had a hi output alt? dissagree totally. this might be a tad bit extreme but i know of 2 systems that get 1 volt less drop by having the second battery. your 200-300 amp alt isnt going to be putting out 200-300 amps when you typically crank your system unless you are basically doing 45 or more mph unless you suggest people drive around in second gear..... all you need is a dmm that saves peak lows and highs in voltage to check...

 

[nickk678 10+ year member]

Well guys, you've done it. I am completley confused as to what to do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[keifersracing 10+ year member]

if you do not know what to do now then start here get it all in the car how you would like it to be no batt or cap and keep your alt the way it is. leave the power wire longer so if you need to add a batt or cap. then run your sub and every thing you use every day do a volt test with all that going if it dropes down 1.5 volts or more start from there check your alt amps it you can get a batt from some one just to test and see how it dose or a cap some people do not like the caps and some that is like there baby. the one thing to keep in mind live and learn. every one was given you good info look at good. hope this helps

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

thing that cracks me up is alt only people assume everything stays constant from the alt..its not voltage will dip and spike reguardless thing is you set up a system so it doesnt dip belowe 10.5 v or so so it doesnt damage your equipment (thats what kills amps) and for some reason the same people think that the system will be cranked like that constantly which it wont be. when i worked at kinetik i couldnt tell you how many people just added a good sized cell to their existing system and loved it. one of my good friends is an installer/salesman/competitor. he still runs around with a stock alt ford focus with a 2400 under the hood and one in back powering a mojo 4k amp and what ever is powering his mcsq's. he doesnt dip into the "danger zone" for the amp. when you are showing off your system are you cruising or parked or going down the highway? so if your alt is doing 100 amps at givin speed or less parked engine on you crank it i would still venture to say you are going to get a nasty voltage drop if you didnt have a good battery and the extra battery there. you are talking about potentially gaining .1's of dbs with extra voltage i think me and knu are talking about the amps surviving. the batteries he was talking about and the ones i am wont die in 5 minutes of playing time either lol probably closer to hour-hours with the key off

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

As long as the alternator matches the load, the size of the battery is only significant to starting the car. It should have almost no discharge during the entire time the car is running. If the alternator is rated for really low output at idle, then someone needs to adjust the throttle or have the alt wound differently.
A second battery is definitely good for when the car is off, and it’s a completely different situation.

in alot of cases you are talking about setting your idle well over 1000 rpms. with an alt it takes power mechanically to make electrical power. faster the alt spins generally the more power it can put out. if its doing 250 amps at a low rpm its ******* 20 hp out of the low end of your engine

 

[ampresearch 10+ year member]

thing that cracks me up is alt only people assume everything stays constant from the alt..its not voltage will dip and spike reguardless thing is you set up a system so it doesnt dip belowe 10.5 v or so so it doesnt damage your equipment (thats what kills amps) and for some reason the same people think that the system will be cranked like that constantly which it wont be. when i worked at kinetik i couldnt tell you how many people just added a good sized cell to their existing system and loved it. one of my good friends is an installer/salesman/competitor. he still runs around with a stock alt ford focus with a 2400 under the hood and one in back powering a mojo 4k amp and what ever is powering his mcsq's. he doesnt dip into the "danger zone" for the amp. when you are showing off your system are you cruising or parked or going down the highway? so if your alt is doing 100 amps at givin speed or less parked engine on you crank it i would still venture to say you are going to get a nasty voltage drop if you didnt have a good battery and the extra battery there. you are talking about potentially gaining .1's of dbs with extra voltage i think me and knu are talking about the amps surviving. the batteries he was talking about and the ones i am wont die in 5 minutes of playing time either lol probably closer to hour-hours with the key off

Funny you should say thaty because I gained exactly that lol well almost

I run a 200 amp alt. the alt is set up to produce that at around 1500RPM.

After installing the alt, one yellow top and changing out the big three I fixed all voltage problems. I run at 14.6 and never drop past mid to high 12's even during really heavy sessions.

Well about a week ago I had a chance to get another yellow top for VERY cheap so I figured what the heck why not. Well after I added it my voltage became even more stable and I gained .1 DB with no other mods to the system. i full tilt my system draws around 260 amps

i run 2x1500.1 kicker amps and 1 350x4 kicker amps.

so my vote is for both. a nice alt and the bat's

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

Well guys, you've done it. I am completley confused as to what to do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

When in doubt - install it and see what you get. If you have less than extreme listening habits it might get the job done.

It's not like things are going to melt down instantly if your alt/batt are on the weak side. Just take a voltage measurement from time to time and make sure you're staying 13+ at idle, and pay close attention to how the engine turns over in the morning. If you can notice it getting slower you need to upgrade.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to make sure your factory grounds (big 3) are clean, and decent sized. It's not hard to add a ground wire if you think it may help.

All I did was add an 8 ga from alt to batt.

 

[knukonceptz 10+ year member]

so you are saying that a second battery wouldnt help or even get tapped into if you had a hi output alt? dissagree totally.

x2

So you think only the Alt is supplying current when you are above 12.8v? You have to look at the whole system, its not just one part. When the ALT is putting out 14V, the battery is operating at 14V. When does one know where the power came from? Why dont we attach cables right to the ALT then since 14V power does not come from the battery?

If you want to get creative, you can use an adjustable voltage regulator on a stock ALT. Now you have 15.2V-16V but still 110A, what good did that do us? You have the voltage, but no amperage to back it up.

 

[knukonceptz 10+ year member]

When in doubt - install it and see what you get.

Best advice of the thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

so you are saying that a second battery wouldnt help or even get tapped into if you had a hi output alt? dissagree totally. this might be a tad bit extreme but i know of 2 systems that get 1 volt less drop by having the second battery. your 200-300 amp alt isnt going to be putting out 200-300 amps when you typically crank your system unless you are basically doing 45 or more mph unless you suggest people drive around in second gear..... all you need is a dmm that saves peak lows and highs in voltage to check...

You're telling me that a 2nd battery which has a voltage of 12.8 or close to that is preventing the circuit voltage from dropping from 14.4 volts to over 13.4 volts…

You need to recheck your DMM.

A typical HO alternator which can output 200amps can be set to idle at 120-150 pretty easily. But this shouldn’t even matter because a 200amps system isn’t going to load 200amps on average without someone’s ears getting damaged or them getting a ticket….you have to be realistic.

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

x2
So you think only the Alt is supplying current when you are above 12.8v? You have to look at the whole system, its not just one part. When the ALT is putting out 14V, the battery is operating at 14V. When does one know where the power came from? Why dont we attach cables right to the ALT then since 14V power does not come from the battery?

Yes the alt is supplying ALL of the current above the batteries nominal (minus the little leakage current from the battery)…basic DC principles storage devices don’t discharge until the potential falls below their operating voltage. There is no if ands or butts about it.

You can attach the cables directly to the alternator; but you’ll have quite a bit of ripple voltage on the circuit if you remove the battery, a battery acts as a buffer for the rectified A/C from the alternator. And you might have high voltage if the voltage regulator is offset with the battery.

 

[Thnking 10+ year member]

in alot of cases you are talking about setting your idle well over 1000 rpms. with an alt it takes power mechanically to make electrical power. faster the alt spins generally the more power it can put out. if its doing 250 amps at a low rpm its ******* 20 hp out of the low end of your engine

It takes approx 1hp for every 30-40amps depending on motor and alt.

A 300amp alt is going to use around 10hp on the high side at full tilt.

Your numbers are way off...But I’d be more than glad to walk you through a calculation for a modern engine if you’re interested.