Bass too localized to trunk

[Stel 10+ year member]

Just for my information, I have a similar setup and was wondering why you would have the gain turned way down on the sub amplifier? I'am running a 2-channel Alpine MRV-T757 2-channel bridged old school amp to a IDMAX 12" Dual 2 Ohm,sealed trunk corner, built in enclosure.(Gain turned all the way up), Boston Pro series 6.5 components in the front and back seats run off of a Alpine MRV-F407 4-channel. I am using a Alpine 9835 headunit running in Direct Mode(not using built-in crossovers) and just using the crossovers on the amp and the passive's for the Boston components.

That amp puts out about 300rms @ 12v to your IDMAX which is rated at 1000rms. I doubt thats enough for a 12" sealed IDMAX. Try a more powerful amp if you want optimum performance and more bass. Though if you already have too much bass maybe that amp is fine. With the gains all the way up you are likely clipping the signal to your amp. This can really make the sub sound bad (and sometimes damage it or the amp). Just set the gains correctly or it will be distorted. The gain setting tutorials are listed here: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206371

btw, what did they set the crossover point to?

 

[kenestra 10+ year member]

Looks like 120/HP and 120/LP.

 

[Stel 10+ year member]

That is pretty high for non-directional bass. Some of the SQ people crossover around 50-60Hz, it's pretty non-directional there. I'm at about 80Hz right now. Try other crossover frequencies and see if you like them better.

 

[kenestra 10+ year member]

Will do. Thanks

 

[kottke 10+ year member]

Alright, it seems as if things are beginning to sound a bit better. I tried changing the phase of the woofer and checked everything else. I don't think anything is/was out of phase.

I decided to start from scratch and re-evaluate all my components. First of all, I used a digital multimeter to set the gain on my amp. The amp pushes 480 watts x 1 at 4 ohms. The ID 10 is dual 2 ohm vc wired in series. I set the gain to put out 34.6 volts which of course translates to 300 watts RMS. On the image dynamics website, the recommended wattage range is listed 50 - 400, so 300 RMS isn't too much power is it? Before I had tried to do it by ear, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't pushing too much.

Secondly, I moved the sub out of its usual position behind the seat facing toward the rear of the trunk. Instead, I put it in the rear passenger's side corner, facing outward. An odd spot, I know, but it seems to have increased the bass while also not sounding quite as localized.

So, things sound a bit better now. The only thing that is still bugging me now (because I'm a picky S.O.B.) is that when I'm sitting in the driver's seat, if I lean forward about a foot, putting my face just above the steering wheel, the whole setup sounds awesome! The bass is even better, the front speakers sound much more balanced, all in all, it sounds exactly how I want it to sound. BUT, when I lean back into my normal driving position, it goes back to sounding just a bit "off." Not as bad as before, but I can tell a difference.

I have a 2006 Honda Civic sedan and the **** thing has a veerrry deep dashboard. Could that be why it sounds better leaning up some?

I know this all sounds all probably sounds pretty stupid, but I really appreciate you all trying to help.

Thanks.

 

[bass_lover1 10+ year member]

Alright, it seems as if things are beginning to sound a bit better. I tried changing the phase of the woofer and checked everything else. I don't think anything is/was out of phase.
I decided to start from scratch and re-evaluate all my components. First of all, I used a digital multimeter to set the gain on my amp. The amp pushes 480 watts x 1 at 4 ohms. The ID 10 is dual 2 ohm vc wired in series. I set the gain to put out 34.6 volts which of course translates to 300 watts RMS. On the image dynamics website, the recommended wattage range is listed 50 - 400, so 300 RMS isn't too much power is it? Before I had tried to do it by ear, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't pushing too much.

Secondly, I moved the sub out of its usual position behind the seat facing toward the rear of the trunk. Instead, I put it in the rear passenger's side corner, facing outward. An odd spot, I know, but it seems to have increased the bass while also not sounding quite as localized.

So, things sound a bit better now. The only thing that is still bugging me now (because I'm a picky S.O.B.) is that when I'm sitting in the driver's seat, if I lean forward about a foot, putting my face just above the steering wheel, the whole setup sounds awesome! The bass is even better, the front speakers sound much more balanced, all in all, it sounds exactly how I want it to sound. BUT, when I lean back into my normal driving position, it goes back to sounding just a bit "off." Not as bad as before, but I can tell a difference.

I have a 2006 Honda Civic sedan and the **** thing has a veerrry deep dashboard. Could that be why it sounds better leaning up some?

I know this all sounds all probably sounds pretty stupid, but I really appreciate you all trying to help.

Thanks.

The whole phase thing, was just a suggestion, but occasionally putting the driver out of phase compared to the rest of the setup, will actually put it "in phase" get what I'm saying?

My guess is that when you lean your head forward like you mentioned thats where all the wave lengths are blending perfectly and you're getting that perfect soundstage that you're looking for.

I see you're running coaxils, that could be a reason why the sound stage is more forward than desired, though it shouldn't really matter but it appears to be that way. Thats one reason why I never really liked coaxils, I could never get the staging where I wanted it to be.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Alright, it seems as if things are beginning to sound a bit better. I tried changing the phase of the woofer and checked everything else. I don't think anything is/was out of phase.
I decided to start from scratch and re-evaluate all my components. First of all, I used a digital multimeter to set the gain on my amp. The amp pushes 480 watts x 1 at 4 ohms. The ID 10 is dual 2 ohm vc wired in series. I set the gain to put out 34.6 volts which of course translates to 300 watts RMS. On the image dynamics website, the recommended wattage range is listed 50 - 400, so 300 RMS isn't too much power is it? Before I had tried to do it by ear, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't pushing too much.

Secondly, I moved the sub out of its usual position behind the seat facing toward the rear of the trunk. Instead, I put it in the rear passenger's side corner, facing outward. An odd spot, I know, but it seems to have increased the bass while also not sounding quite as localized.

So, things sound a bit better now. The only thing that is still bugging me now (because I'm a picky S.O.B.) is that when I'm sitting in the driver's seat, if I lean forward about a foot, putting my face just above the steering wheel, the whole setup sounds awesome! The bass is even better, the front speakers sound much more balanced, all in all, it sounds exactly how I want it to sound. BUT, when I lean back into my normal driving position, it goes back to sounding just a bit "off." Not as bad as before, but I can tell a difference.

I have a 2006 Honda Civic sedan and the **** thing has a veerrry deep dashboard. Could that be why it sounds better leaning up some?

I know this all sounds all probably sounds pretty stupid, but I really appreciate you all trying to help.

Thanks.

You've got a phasing issue. I don't know if your amp has a phase knob, if it does try that, just turn it and go check to see if it sounds right. If not, phsyically reverse the wires on your amp.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Alright, it seems as if things are beginning to sound a bit better. I tried changing the phase of the woofer and checked everything else. I don't think anything is/was out of phase.
I decided to start from scratch and re-evaluate all my components. First of all, I used a digital multimeter to set the gain on my amp. The amp pushes 480 watts x 1 at 4 ohms. The ID 10 is dual 2 ohm vc wired in series. I set the gain to put out 34.6 volts which of course translates to 300 watts RMS. On the image dynamics website, the recommended wattage range is listed 50 - 400, so 300 RMS isn't too much power is it? Before I had tried to do it by ear, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't pushing too much.

Secondly, I moved the sub out of its usual position behind the seat facing toward the rear of the trunk. Instead, I put it in the rear passenger's side corner, facing outward. An odd spot, I know, but it seems to have increased the bass while also not sounding quite as localized.

So, things sound a bit better now. The only thing that is still bugging me now (because I'm a picky S.O.B.) is that when I'm sitting in the driver's seat, if I lean forward about a foot, putting my face just above the steering wheel, the whole setup sounds awesome! The bass is even better, the front speakers sound much more balanced, all in all, it sounds exactly how I want it to sound. BUT, when I lean back into my normal driving position, it goes back to sounding just a bit "off." Not as bad as before, but I can tell a difference.

I have a 2006 Honda Civic sedan and the **** thing has a veerrry deep dashboard. Could that be why it sounds better leaning up some?

I know this all sounds all probably sounds pretty stupid, but I really appreciate you all trying to help.

Thanks.

You've got a phasing issue. I don't know if your amp has a phase knob, if it does try that, just turn it and go check to see if it sounds right. If not, phsyically reverse the wires on your amp.

 

[kottke 10+ year member]

The whole phase thing, was just a suggestion, but occasionally putting the driver out of phase compared to the rest of the setup, will actually put it "in phase" get what I'm saying?
My guess is that when you lean your head forward like you mentioned thats where all the wave lengths are blending perfectly and you're getting that perfect soundstage that you're looking for.

I see you're running coaxils, that could be a reason why the sound stage is more forward than desired, though it shouldn't really matter but it appears to be that way. Thats one reason why I never really liked coaxils, I could never get the staging where I wanted it to be.

Yeah, my boss....I mean wife , keeps me on a strict budget. I wanted some nice components (rainbow:yumyum: ), but had to settle for a set of pioneer coaxials. It is a shame.

Regarding the phasing:

"You've got a phasing issue. I don't know if your amp has a phase knob, if it does try that, just turn it and go check to see if it sounds right. If not, phsyically reverse the wires on your amp."

I tried reversing the phasing on the sub, but I thought it sounded worse. I don't have and amp powering the coaxials, just the head unit unfortunately. Should I try the phasing of the front speakers? They really don't sound out of phase to me, but I'll be the first to tell you I don't completely know what I am doing (as if you hadn't figured that out already ). I could try that, I just didn't want to take the **** doors off again. My h/u doesn't have any sort of phasing adjustment so I have to do it the old fashion way.

Thanks guys!

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

I think what you are talking about now is just related to the soundstage created by the speakers. That is caused mainly by their mounting location and angle relative to the listener, so aside from relocating your driver seat, leaning forward really far, or relocating the speakers, you aren't going to be able to fix that.

 

[kottke 10+ year member]

I think what you are talking about now is just related to the soundstage created by the speakers. That is caused mainly by their mounting location and angle relative to the listener, so aside from relocating your driver seat, leaning forward really far, or relocating the speakers, you aren't going to be able to fix that.

I was thinking of this also. The 6.5s are mounted on a plastic adapter made by scosche for Civics that are 2006 model and up. The Civics have this pain in the butt speaker hole that is shaped a bit like a horseshoe, with these two extensions that stick up in the hole. I wonder if I could possibly shave down the side closest to the seats so the speakers would angle more towards the cabin. What do you all think of this idea?

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

The plastic is part of your problem as well, use the adapter to make another out of MDF...