Bass too localized to trunk

[kottke 10+ year member]

Hey Everyone. I recently purchased an ID10 which I installed in a .75 cu. vol. box. I've got 480 watts x 1 going to it at 4 ohms (gain turned way down). I have it placed in the trunk of my 2006 Honda Civic Sedan.

When I first installed it, I left everything in it as factory (Head Unit, four 6.5 speakers) other than adding the sub. The sub sounded fantastic and blended very well with the factory components. Well, I decided that the front factory speakers just weren't cutting it as far as clean highs and such. So, I purchased some Pioneer TS-G1641R 6.5" speakers (they don't require much power) to go in the front doors. I also attached some bass blockers to them when installed.

After everything was up and running I noticed three things: 1)The highs sounded 10x better than before, 2)The sub still sounded **** good, and 3)Everything now sounded very localized, not blended well at all. I can definitely tell the highs are coming from up front and definitely tell most of the bass in coming from behind me. How do I get these to blend better? I've got the crossover on the amp for the sub (it is tapped into rear speaker wire) set at 70-80 hz. I've tried fading more to the front speakers. That helps the overall sound, but the bass is still very localized. I'm wondering if it isn't the bass blockers. They are set at 600 hz and 6db. Are they possibly eliminating too much sound between 600 hz down tho the 70 - 80 hz the sub amp is set, therefore creating a gap in sound? Any other ideas?

Thanks

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[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

The bass blockers are your problem. You're missing too much material between the sub and the front speakers. You could try lowering the crossover point on the sub amp and that should help some but you're really missing too much from the front speakers.

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

Do you even know what frequency the bass blockers are supposed to crossover at @4 ohms? If not, you may be crossing them over far higher than you realize.

As immacomputer already said, a large absence of midbass is going to make the subwoofer stand out like a sore thumb...

 

[kottke 10+ year member]

Do you even know what frequency the bass blockers are supposed to crossover at @4 ohms? If not, you may be crossing them over far higher than you realize.
As immacomputer already said, a large absence of midbass is going to make the subwoofer stand out like a sore thumb...

Yeah, at 4 ohms the crossover is 600 hz. I thought that the blocker I needed was the one that was at 300 hz, but the guy at the audio store kept telling me I needed the 600 hz.

So, do you all think I need to just remove the bass blockers all together, or get some at a lower frequency level? If you think I need a lower frequency cut off, what level would you recommend?

Thanks for all the help.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

good lord! 600Hz is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. You are using 6.5s, not 2s. I'd say with a 6dB octave slope, no higher than 200Hz. You could probably do 120-150Hz without any issues, honestly. It will sound a LOT better. Worlds better.

If you are just using head unit power, you may not need any at all. Try them without them on and see how it sounds. If it sounds good and doesn't distort at the desired volume level, then you have yourself a winner. If it does, just get a much lower frequency one as I said above.

 

[Stel 10+ year member]

Yeah the bass blocker is way too high! I would try around 90-110Hz with a 12db slope, or maybe a bit higher with the 6 db slope. Or the best thing to do would be to get a small external amp (around 50 rms/channel @ 4ohms) with built in high pass filter. It should sound much better than the factory HU since they rarely put out much power. What audio store was it?

 

[XHiFiX 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/word.gif.64b12e39f936af3b4fff38a1c0bd0244.gif

With the HU powering your speakers, just play them full range. And even though I don't like "bass blockers", you can make your own for less by getting some non-polar electrolytic caps from Radioshack. 220µF would be fine for your 6 1/2's.

Your best option though, would be to get a cheap 2CH amp with a variable HP for your front speakers and play the rears off the HU power.

 

[kottke 10+ year member]

Thanks everybody so much for your replies! I thought 600 hz seemed a high, but I'm pretty new at this, so I figured he knew what he was talking about, considering he works in car audio.

The store is a local one here in the giant city of Henderson, KY. It is called Custom Audio. I've actually been pretty happy with them as they've helped me out a lot. Other than this minor issue, I have no complaints.

Thanks again everyone. I'll try taking off the blockers after work today!

 

[SPL140.2 5,000+ posts]

setting your frequency to around 50-55hz to your sub should help bring the bass up front, its the higher notes that are localized comimg from your sub, you should really than set your front stage around 60hz. Just my 2 cents

 

[kottke 10+ year member]

Ok....I've removed the bass blockers. After a little tweaking (mainly fading 2 clicks to the front speakers), it definitely sounds better. However, it still sounds a little off to me.

The more I fade the head unit to the front speakers, the better blended the setup sounds. But, the more I blend it to the front, the less bass response I get overall. I've got the amp wired with speaker level inputs patched from the rear speaker wires (factory head unit doesn't have rca outs). So every time I take more sound away from the rear speakers, I'm also loosing some of the signal going to the amp, then to the sub. What to do? Should I go ahead and try reverse phasing the front speakers?

Also: I've got the low pass crossover set at about 60 hz.

Thanks all.

 

[jeremiah 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/word.gif.64b12e39f936af3b4fff38a1c0bd0244.gif
With the HU powering your speakers, just play them full range. And even though I don't like "bass blockers", you can make your own for less by getting some non-polar electrolytic caps from Radioshack. 220µF would be fine for your 6 1/2's.

Your best option though, would be to get a cheap 2CH amp with a variable HP for your front speakers and play the rears off the HU power.

wow wow wow what!?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif how to! I would like to know!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif

 

[kenestra 10+ year member]

Just for my information, I have a similar setup and was wondering why you would have the gain turned way down on the sub amplifier? I'am running a 2-channel Alpine MRV-T757 2-channel bridged old school amp to a IDMAX 12" Dual 2 Ohm,sealed trunk corner, built in enclosure.(Gain turned all the way up), Boston Pro series 6.5 components in the front and back seats run off of a Alpine MRV-F407 4-channel. I am using a Alpine 9835 headunit running in Direct Mode(not using built-in crossovers) and just using the crossovers on the amp and the passive's for the Boston components.

 

[bass_lover1 10+ year member]

Just for my information, I have a similar setup and was wondering why you would have the gain turned way down on the sub amplifier? I'am running a 2-channel Alpine MRV-T757 2-channel bridged old school amp to a IDMAX 12" Dual 2 Ohm,sealed trunk corner, built in enclosure.(Gain turned all the way up), Boston Pro series 6.5 components in the front and back seats run off of a Alpine MRV-F407 4-channel. I am using a Alpine 9835 headunit running in Direct Mode(not using built-in crossovers) and just using the crossovers on the amp and the passive's for the Boston components.

Having the gain on the amp turned down is never a bad thing, having it all the way up on the other hand, is usually not the brightest idea.

My guess is, since you have the gain all the way up, you aren't getting the desired output that you wanted, try a larger amp.

Kskitka. Using a line out converter is not a bad thing, if the OP wants to keep the factory HU, then there is no other way around it, though it's generally not desired by some, there are no problems with it.

OP: Set the fade back to normal, and if your amp has a phase adjustment on it, try that, if not just swap the speaker wires, which will put it 180* out of phase. In my experience, which obviously doesn't cover everything, even with time alignment setup in my car, reversing the phase on the subwoofer definitely had a very noticeable difference, it might end up helping you as well.

 

[kenestra 10+ year member]

Having the gain on the amp turned down is never a bad thing, having it all the way up on the other hand, is usually not the brightest idea.
My guess is, since you have the gain all the way up, you aren't getting the desired output that you wanted, try a larger amp.

Kskitka. Using a line out converter is not a bad thing, if the OP wants to keep the factory HU, then there is no other way around it, though it's generally not desired by some, there are no problems with it.

OP: Set the fade back to normal, and if your amp has a phase adjustment on it, try that, if not just swap the speaker wires, which will put it 180* out of phase. In my experience, which obviously doesn't cover everything, even with time alignment setup in my car, reversing the phase on the subwoofer definitely had a very noticeable difference, it might end up helping you as well.

Yeah, My installer set it there. Even in bridged mode I'am only putting out about 400 watts to that IDMAX sub. It does seem though that the sub is to prominent in the setup. I'am going to fool with it a bit and try alot less gain,maybe 1/4 level?

 

[XHiFiX 10+ year member]

wow wow wow what!?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif how to! I would like to know!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif

http://www.bcae1.com/capspkr.htm

http://www.bcae1.com/passxovr.htm

"Bass blockers" are just caps that are wired in series with your speakers. They're cheap, passive HP filters that only give you a 6db/Oct roll off. I'd use them for factory OEM speakers, but still, you'd be better off using the x-overs on a HU or amp if they're available.