Anybody play pool?

[choochooSS 10+ year member]

i wasnt tryin to say that the more expensive the better

like diabolic said there is a massive difference in ball control and such. also the most difference you would notice would be the hit. a good cue will have a good solid hit as to where a cheap cue will have a "ricketty hit".you will fell the hit all the way at the bottom of the cue.thats not good in my oppinion

as far as grahpite or fiberglass, they will have a flimsy hit.they still hit solid but with a lot of force they will flex and make the ball do wierd things, but it takes a lot to do that.i personally play with a graphite cue but i also have a good wooden one and im looking into a viking

 

[Diabolic 10+ year member]

Lucasi is a GOOD cue. Viking, Schon and Cuetec are also very good. McDermott and Meucci are so-so, but some people swear by them, so the important thing to remember is that this is just my opinion.

Different types of wood in the butt don't mean too much except how good or bad it looks and maybe a little difference in resistance to wear, humidity, dings, and so on (but that will be a SMALL difference, overall).

Different GRAINS of wood in the shaft, along with how the shaft is made, can make a tremendous difference. Look for tight grain patterns along the length of a shaft. Wide or "splotchy" patterns will have a less uniform response to the impact of a shot. The more force you apply, the more noticeable this can become. Predator and Lucasi shafts are as good as just about any player could ever need.

Hard tips, such as the Pro Series, will require more scuffing because they tend to flatten more easily when shooting or breaking. You have to be careful to maintain the correct shape when scuffing, for accurate english. Also, hard tips have a much higher tendency to miscue unless you keep it scuffed & chalked at all times. I use the Hard Pro tip, which is the hardest available, but most people absolutely hate them. "Draw" shots turn into "jump" shots rather easily, if you aren't careful.

Soft tips will grab the cue ball more, for better english and spin. The only downside to soft tips is that they can "mushroom" (deform), or wear out quickly.

If you get a separate break cue, I'll offer some advice that is contrary to what most people will tell you: get a light, cheap stick with a hard tip. About an 18oz. cue is a good choice. Why? Because physically, the ball has no "memory" of how heavy the cue was that struck it. All that really matters is how fast it is going when it hits the rack, and a lighter cue allows a faster follow through when breaking. A friend of mine has a 24 mile-per-hour break and he uses an 18.5oz stick made of pine.

Another difference in value can be the weight distribution of a cue. Cheaper cues are inevitably lopsided or off-balance to some degree.

Once you pass the $200 range, the only real difference becomes aesthetics and materials. The number of points are a big factor, along with other detailings like the type of rings, the type of wrap, and so on. For example, the cue I designed, which is now being made for me by Shick, has 8 points, each consisting of multiple inlays using ebony, 14kt gold, and abalone. The 8-points repeat twice on the butt. The cue is very expensive because of both quality, Shick's reputation, and the aesthetics, but it probably won't hit much better than my much-loved Lucasi.

 

[choochooSS 10+ year member]

the only thing i disagree about in ur last statement is the wieght in a break cue(which it may just be my oppinion)

i think i heavier cue would work better because it will have more momentum when it come in contact with the ball thus making it go faster due to the added momentum.

for example when you a car runs into a wall at 30mph it does some pretty good damage, but when a semi truck hits the wall at 30mph it gets completley demolished.same priciple with golf, you dont use a light club so you can swing it faster you use a heavy one so it smashed hard into the ball

but this is my oppinion and is not neccesarily correct.

 

[Moocow16 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Diabolic Lucasi is a GOOD cue. Viking, Schon and Cuetec are also very good. McDermott and Meucci are so-so, but some people swear by them, so the important thing to remember is that this is just my opinion.

 

Different types of wood in the butt don't mean too much except how good or bad it looks and maybe a little difference in resistance to wear, humidity, dings, and so on (but that will be a SMALL difference, overall).

 

Different GRAINS of wood in the shaft, along with how the shaft is made, can make a tremendous difference. Look for tight grain patterns along the length of a shaft. Wide or "splotchy" patterns will have a less uniform response to the impact of a shot. The more force you apply, the more noticeable this can become. Predator and Lucasi shafts are as good as just about any player could ever need.

 

Hard tips, such as the Pro Series, will require more scuffing because they tend to flatten more easily when shooting or breaking. You have to be careful to maintain the correct shape when scuffing, for accurate english. Also, hard tips have a much higher tendency to miscue unless you keep it scuffed & chalked at all times. I use the Hard Pro tip, which is the hardest available, but most people absolutely hate them. "Draw" shots turn into "jump" shots rather easily, if you aren't careful.

 

Soft tips will grab the cue ball more, for better english and spin. The only downside to soft tips is that they can "mushroom" (deform), or wear out quickly.

 

If you get a separate break cue, I'll offer some advice that is contrary to what most people will tell you: get a light, cheap stick with a hard tip. About an 18oz. cue is a good choice. Why? Because physically, the ball has no "memory" of how heavy the cue was that struck it. All that really matters is how fast it is going when it hits the rack, and a lighter cue allows a faster follow through when breaking. A friend of mine has a 24 mile-per-hour break and he uses an 18.5oz stick made of pine.

 

Another difference in value can be the weight distribution of a cue. Cheaper cues are inevitably lopsided or off-balance to some degree.

 

Once you pass the $200 range, the only real difference becomes aesthetics and materials. The number of points are a big factor, along with other detailings like the type of rings, the type of wrap, and so on. For example, the cue I designed, which is now being made for me by Shick, has 8 points, each consisting of multiple inlays using ebony, 14kt gold, and abalone. The 8-points repeat twice on the butt. The cue is very expensive because of both quality, Shick's reputation, and the aesthetics, but it probably won't hit much better than my much-loved Lucasi.

alright, wow, lots of good information. one more thing, you said something about points. what are those?(i know very little about pool other than how to play) oh actually, i saw this on a website too, but what's deflection and squirt?

 

[choochooSS 10+ year member]

points are the pointy patterns on the but of the stick.the things that go up and down like real skinny tall triangles. the more points the more expensive generaly because they are inlays of sometimes different or colored wood

 

[Moocow16 10+ year member]

i thought it had something more to do with the quality of the cue, not the design, but alright, thanks

 

[Diabolic 10+ year member]

No, points are purely for appearances.

I have had the privelige of knowing and occasionally playing some of the best players in the world (I never win, I just take very humbling lessons, fyi). Danny Basavich, Francisco Bustamante, Efren Reyes, Jeremy Jones... all of these guys break with a light cue. Buddy Hall and Mike Massey break with mid-weight cues (around 20-21 oz) and they're both big, big guys. I'm sure there are players that break with heavier cues, but I don't know any of them.

"Squirt" happens when you use left or right english. This is a simplified explanation but to elaborate a little: if you strike the cueball with right english, the cueball immediately moves a little to the left. The further to either side of the ball your tip is when you stroke, the further the ball will move in the opposite direction. It takes time to learn how to compensate for squirt in your aim, when you need to use left or right english. Here again, the cue can make a big difference. My cue causes lots of squirt. Meuccis cause more than any cue I have ever played with. A Viking doesn't squirt much at all but remember: the less reaction you get, the more control you have but the less english you will have. It's always a trade-off.

The length of the "taper" and the diameter of the tip on a shaft also affect how much action you get. A longer taper and/or narrower tip means more action and vice-versa. I prefer a little less, rather than a little more, but everyone eventually learns their preference.

 

[maylar 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Diabolic I play with a $600 Buddy Hall signature Lucasi - their top non-custom cue of '02. I'm am a BIG advocate of the Lucasi brand. I can't stand the "rubbery" feel of a Meucci when striking the ball with any force. Some people don't notice it - some do.

You're obviously not the average player. You understand the differences in the design and materials that make one cue feel different than another. The vast majority of "casual" players would have a hard time telling one stick from another if they were blindfolded.
Havng made some cues myself I can tell you that the things that affect the hit, feel, and action are very subtle. Like how dense is the maple used for the shaft, how many growth rings per inch. What kind of taper. What methods are used to join the butt sections together. These things have nothing to do with ivory inlay or how many points are in the forearm.

There are compromises too. A cue with a "hard" shaft will not deflect as much as a "soft" shaft. You get better accuracy for long shots at the expense of cue action for draw and English. What's better is a mater of preference and playing style.

No one can predict how a stick will play in their own hands until you try it. And what feels good to one player might **** to another player. Before investing $200 in a cue see if you can borrow one of the same brand from a friend and try it for yorself.

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Moocow16 alright, wow, lots of good information. one more thing, you said something about points. what are those?(i know very little about pool other than how to play) oh actually, i saw this on a website too, but what's deflection and squirt?

I play on occasion (about twice a month).. I'm not trying to win any trophies or impress anyone, I just like playing..

My first que was a K-Mart special for around $20 (12 years ago).. it rolled straight on the floor and had a 13mm tip (I like the narrower tips.. is the 13mm the thin one? or is that 11mm.. or is the standard 15mm?.. been a long time since I've actually compared them).. I used it for about a year and a 1/2.. then it started warping (but I wasn't taking care of it either.. it spent 1/2 the winter in WI in the back of my car).. Then I got a 'nice' one for ~$75 from a local pool shop.. I didn't see any difference in how well I hit or controlled the ball (at that time I was playing pool dayly while I was in college.. about 4 hours a day).. I lost that stick (was stolen).. Then I didn't play for many years.. Out here in Colorado, some guys from work go down the the local poolhall/bar about twice a month after work on Fridays.. I needed a stick.. I bought a $16 stick from Walmart.. it was straight and light and had a 13mm tip.. The rubber bumper on the butt fell off in the first month.. But, the stick was straight and the weight wasn't changed.. I used that stick for 2 years and it just now is starting to show a little bow.. Time to get new cue.. but, I'll still probably not buy a 'nice' one.. why? I'm not shooting in comps and it's not my profession.. I shoot to have fun and be in a social setting..

That said.. I would suggest getting a nice cheap stick from Walmart.. make sure it's straight (roll it on the floor.. I'd say that about 80% of them have a bow) and is a weight you think you like.. Play with that for a year or so.. practice up.. decide if you think you need a 'really good' stick or not.. Hell, you might not even like playing enough to justify buying a stick, and won't know until you have a few hundred games under your belt.. *shrug*

$200 is a bit much for a piece of wood, if you ask me.. If you have the money to spend, good for you.. I can think of a lot of other things I could do with the other $180 if I get a WallyWorld special, and I like playing pool //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif .. At some point, I'm sure I'll get another 'good' stick ($100 or less), but in the mean time, since I need one now that the old one is starting to bow, I'll be heading to WallyWorld.. infact, we have an outing scheduled for Friday, I'll probably get a stick on the way there..

as a side note, buying a good (great?) stick won't make you good at pool //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif .... I'm sure there are plenty out there that can spank me on a house cue while I use a $2,000 Bambooshka (is that even a real cue? from the color of money..). I'd guess that going from a straight properly weighted house que to a 'great' cue might increase your game 5%- 10% with the increased finess you can apply, but that presumes you are already pretty good and just need that little edge to make some of the more difficult shots..

Just my opinions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Moocow16 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Savant I play on occasion (about twice a month).. I'm not trying to win any trophies or impress anyone, I just like playing..

 

My first que was a K-Mart special for around $20 (12 years ago).. it rolled straight on the floor and had a 13mm tip (I like the narrower tips.. is the 13mm the thin one? or is that 11mm.. or is the standard 15mm?.. been a long time since I've actually compared them).. I used it for about a year and a 1/2.. then it started warping (but I wasn't taking care of it either.. it spent 1/2 the winter in WI in the back of my car).. Then I got a 'nice' one for ~$75 from a local pool shop.. I didn't see any difference in how well I hit or controlled the ball (at that time I was playing pool dayly while I was in college.. about 4 hours a day).. I lost that stick (was stolen).. Then I didn't play for many years.. Out here in Colorado, some guys from work go down the the local poolhall/bar about twice a month after work on Fridays.. I needed a stick.. I bought a $16 stick from Walmart.. it was straight and light and had a 13mm tip.. The rubber bumper on the butt fell off in the first month.. But, the stick was straight and the weight wasn't changed.. I used that stick for 2 years and it just now is starting to show a little bow.. Time to get new cue.. but, I'll still probably not buy a 'nice' one.. why? I'm not shooting in comps and it's not my profession.. I shoot to have fun and be in a social setting..

 

That said.. I would suggest getting a nice cheap stick from Walmart.. make sure it's straight (roll it on the floor.. I'd say that about 80% of them have a bow) and is a weight you think you like.. Play with that for a year or so.. practice up.. decide if you think you need a 'really good' stick or not.. Hell, you might not even like playing enough to justify buying a stick, and won't know until you have a few hundred games under your belt.. *shrug*

 

$200 is a bit much for a piece of wood, if you ask me.. If you have the money to spend, good for you.. I can think of a lot of other things I could do with the other $180 if I get a WallyWorld special, and I like playing pool //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif .. At some point, I'm sure I'll get another 'good' stick ($100 or less), but in the mean time, since I need one now that the old one is starting to bow, I'll be heading to WallyWorld.. infact, we have an outing scheduled for Friday, I'll probably get a stick on the way there..

 

as a side note, buying a good (great?) stick won't make you good at pool //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif .... I'm sure there are plenty out there that can spank me on a house cue while I use a $2,000 Bambooshka (is that even a real cue? from the color of money..). I'd guess that going from a straight properly weighted house que to a 'great' cue might increase your game 5%- 10% with the increased finess you can apply, but that presumes you are already pretty good and just need that little edge to make some of the more difficult shots..

 

Just my opinions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I think u meant Balabushka. But anyways, my main problem is long shots, and since i miss by a small margin, i figure it's because all the cues are warped. And i really don't wanna buy some walmart cue, even if it is only like $20. i wanna spend the $120 or so for a good stick, that looks good too, that i can keep for 5+ years.

 

[maylar 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Moocow16 I think u meant Balabushka. But anyways, my main problem is long shots, and since i miss by a small margin, i figure it's because all the cues are warped. And i really don't wanna buy some walmart cue, even if it is only like $20. i wanna spend the $120 or so for a good stick, that looks good too, that i can keep for 5+ years.

You might wanna pay the house pro at the local pool hall to critique your stroke. My problem is long shots too... and it's not my stick that's the problem. I tend to move my shoulder during the stroke (I call it "wobble-stick"). Just enough to screw up the shot.
But the taper and density of the shaft does have an effect on the whip-action of the cue. A shaft that deflects will throw off your long shots. The ultimate solution to that is the laminated Preditor shaft http://www.predator314.com/english/whybuy.htm

Good luck.

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Moocow16 I think u meant Balabushka. But anyways, my main problem is long shots, and since i miss by a small margin, i figure it's because all the cues are warped. And i really don't wanna buy some walmart cue, even if it is only like $20. i wanna spend the $120 or so for a good stick, that looks good too, that i can keep for 5+ years.

Actually, the farther you have to shoot, the more a 'tiny' adjustment affects the end point.. that is, if you are close to a side pocket and miss the 'right hit' by 2 degrees, you will probably make the shot.. if you have a pretty straight shot down the table (long shot) and miss by 2 degrees, you will miss the pocket... Granted, a warped que might make you misalign the shot a bit, but that's not the real determining factor.. geometry is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

But, like I said, if you have the money and want a 'better' stick than you could get at Walmart, by all means, buy a nice one.. There has been some good info here about what kinds of things affect the action of the stick (I might even use some of this info //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ).. Oh, and $120 is a fair amount under $200 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Happy shooting! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Diabolic 10+ year member]

Originally posted by maylar You might wanna pay the house pro at the local pool hall to critique your stroke.

That's good advice. A warped cue is an unlikely cause of a missed long shot. Long shots are more difficult for anyone due to the fact that a tiny variance extrapolates over the length of the shot, resulting in a not-so-tiny miss.

Most people are right or left "eye-dominant". It's not really within the scope of a car audio forum to explain how to find out if you are, or how to compensate for it, but it matters a LOT on long shots.

Also, as was stated, the action of a cue can throw off a longer shot. A good, straight stroke is critical to your accuracy and very, very difficult to perfect. Most people (99%+?) *never* master their stroke. But being able to hit center ball is a good place to start for not throwing a shot off due to squirt. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Diabolic 10+ year member]

Oh, and for what it matters, one of the pro players I mentioned earlier shoots with one of the few real Balabushka's still out there. It's a "sleeper" cue, meaning it isn't very decorated, in the event you want to gamble and not scare people. He paid $35,000 for it several years ago. It is probably worth close to $50k now.

 

[Moocow16 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Diabolic Oh, and for what it matters, one of the pro players I mentioned earlier shoots with one of the few real Balabushka's still out there. It's a "sleeper" cue, meaning it isn't very decorated, in the event you want to gamble and not scare people. He paid $35,000 for it several years ago. It is probably worth close to $50k now.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/omg.gif.05aa02c3095d6ce9338996654eca0863.gif the highest i've seena cue go for was $5,000, and i thought that was expensive. $35,000!!! i'd prefer to buy a BMW or a charger or something. I went to play pool today and i tried out some of their cues, they go from 18oz. to 20oz, and i think you're right. I think it was a lot easier to break with the ligher cue than it was with a heavier one. And is a sneeky pete the same as a sleeper?