600 Watt RMS Subwoofer not as loud and tight as 400 watt RMS Subwoofer?

[alexd3030]

This is my first post So I need help with this... Sorry if its the wrong forum..

So I had a Sony XS-LD126P5 Single 12 inch Subwoofer DVC 400RMS (1500 MAX) installed in my car with a 400 2 ohm watt Amplifier. I took out both and installed my new Pioneer TS-W2502D4 10 In. Champion Series PRO Subwoofer with 3000 Watts (800 Watts RMS) with a my new 600 watt amp the MB Quart FX1.600. Both subwoofer have a ported enclosure I bought off online. So I turned my new amp and sub for the first time today, but to my surprise, the Subwoofer is not playing at low frequencies like my 400 watt Subwoofer, thus making my car "shake" less. At first I thought it was the Amplifier, so I tweaked the settings and what not but to no avail. So then I thought it might be the Subwoofer, so I quickly switched out the Pioneer 600 watt sub back to my 400 watt with the same amp. My 400 Watt sony is still back to shaking my car like crazy (making the trunk make noise and what not) so then I thought the wiring might be bad. I took out the Pioneer out of the enclosure and my 400 Watt also, and compared the wiring. The wiring was perfectly fine in both. I'm not completely sure but I think you can hear the bass a little better in the 600 RMS but both Subs are set for 2 ohm.

According to the website with the sub settings, the pioneer has a frequency response of 20 hz to 150, enough to play a nice low bass. My sony has 30 -1000 hz which is a difference so that might be the case.

The Screws are fine in both Subwoofers.

Any ideas Why my 400 watt sub shakes the car more even though my 600 has a lower frequency and it is louder?

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[Jes 42 10+ year member]

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[phemps 10+ year member]

Le'nclosure

 

[alexd3030]

Yeah, I thought I'd get a reply like this, most forum members like to make us amateurs look like idiots. But regardless I do need your help with this. I also noticed something just a few minutes ago that I didn't notice before and it was one of the retarded mistakes I made. The subwoofer box for the pioneer is 1.14 Cubic feet Airspace.. The pioneer recommends .9 Cubic feet for a PORTED enclosure. Well it's either that or it's because more RMS power doesn't always means it's gonna be better. Anyone care to explain

 

[Ahmed Johnson]

Truthfully, those subs work better with a box way bigger than manufacturer recommendations. Are you sure that both subs are dual 4 ohms? Plus I think the pioneer sub is rated at 800 rms and the magnets on those are heavy so they need all the power they can get. But still, I can't see how any sony sub would hit better lows than that pioneer sub.

 

[alexd3030]

Yeah the Pioneer are 800 Watts RMS, I just said 600 because of thats the power given to them by the 600 watt Amp. Not sure if that makes a difference but anyway, I measured the 12" inch box. It is 16" Length, width, and Height. The port on it 14.5" Height, 1.5" Length" and 13" inches Depth It's a pretty thin port. the 10" subwoofer box is 16"W x 12"H x 14 1/4" D 1.14 CUBIC FT AIR SPACE 2"x10 3/4" PORT x 10 3/4" DEEP

Not sure if you guys can understand that, I just copied it from ebay. Yeah I ordered the box which is why it made affect the 10" sub but I also ordered the 12" and it blasts my Sony subwoofer. Also, the magnet on the pioneer is huge like you said. I tested the loudness of both subs from inside my house. the 12" is definitely louder :/

Here is a link to the subwoofer specs:

10 inch pioneer: Pioneer TS-W2502D4 Champion Series Pro 10" sub with dual 4-ohm voice coils at Crutchfield.com

12 inch sony xplod: Sony XS-LD126P5 Single 12 inch Subwoofer DVC 400RMS, 1500W MAX (Sony XSLD126P5)

Would you recommend getting a new box or just returning the 10" pioneer.

 

[NIHL8ION]

Wrong enclosure for that sub and you're NOT giving it the power it needs so Yes, I can see why the other setup sounds better to you, so short of reinventing the wheel with your whole system I'd just return that sub if I was you

 

[alexd3030]

Mmmmh could you do some explaining please? I don't understand, heres what I thought so you could correct me:

I have a MB QUART FX1.600 Amp to power the pioneer at 2 ohms so I thought the Pioneer would now be handling 600 Watts (though it handle 800 rms). I thought my sony xplod would not be able to handle that much power because it's made to handle 400. How come the pioneer sounds like crap when supposedly given 600 watts as opposed to 800? Or why does it NEED to be given around 800 watts and not 200 under? As for the enclosure, do you mean ported or I just need a way bigger box

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

bigger ported box, and those pioneers arent power efficient so you'd want to give it more than what it asks because there's also box rise to factor in. you'd want a much bigger amp for that sub then your current one. Also i'd never put those pioneers in sealed, they sound horrible in a sealed box.

 

[Ahmed Johnson]

I would get the 12 but the 10 should kill that sony. You do need a little more power plus I'm willing to bet that the sony was playing more distorted clipping noise making you think it was slamming harder. Atleast for sure, the sq will be way better with that pioneer

 

[alexd3030]

Nah it wasn't clipping or distorting I put the bass boost and other settings down on the amp so it couldn't draw in too much power. It was slamming pretty much the same as with the 400 watt amp, I was just sayin it was slamming harder than the pioneer but yeah I might just return the two amp and sub since I'm on a budget and i don't wanna buy a 800 to 900 watt amp for the pioneer. And I can conclude its better to buy a amp with more watts or same watts as the Subwoofer, Thanks!

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Something everyone seems to be glossing over is that your comparing a 10 to a twelve, also 400 to 600 watts is hardly a jump. You'd have to about double power on the sub to see a noticeable change, assuming you kept the woofer size the same, which you didn't. With lower end subwoofers you don't have alot of overall excursion capability or BL, so cone area does make a big difference, the quality between that sony and pioneer won't make up the size difference very easily.

Also, if you box's aren't the same overall size in relation to the woofer, or turned similarly, they won't respond similarly at all.

My personal suggestion, find a buyer for everything you have and start over. Or at minimum, keep you amp for now, sell the smaller amp and both the subs. Generally speaking as wel, if your a basshead and want to be loud on music, use the most cone area you can fit a properly sized box for. If you have room for a 12 do that, especially on a budget as buying multiple smaller subs gets expensive fast.

 

[thatguy12 10+ year member]

Need a new box. People on here build awesome custom ones for fairly cheap.

 

[alexd3030]

Great response tempest. I am thinking of selling everything except I'm trying to keep the 10" pioneer and wait for more money to buy a a similar watt amp and maybe make my own box after some research.. or just buy one here

 

[NIHL8ION]

Mmmmh could you do some explaining please? I don't understand, heres what I thought so you could correct me: I have a MB QUART FX1.600 Amp to power the pioneer at 2 ohms so I thought the Pioneer would now be handling 600 Watts (though it handle 800 rms). I thought my sony xplod would not be able to handle that much power because it's made to handle 400. How come the pioneer sounds like crap when supposedly given 600 watts as opposed to 800? Or why does it NEED to be given around 800 watts and not 200 under? As for the enclosure, do you mean ported or I just need a way bigger box

That amp you are running right now is more than likely NOT even giving your sub a real 600 RMS, and 600 is NOT enough anyhow... There is an RMS rating on that sub for a reason - It doesn't say 100-800 rms - It says 800 rms - That's what it needs, and a proper ported enclosure to get the most output from it...
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