Nothing I said is akin to the "you can't afford JL" thing. I simply stated that all setups have an ability to be loud, regardless of the brand of sub used. I also said that quiet Kicker installs could be attributed to the enclosure and install, not the brand of sub. You are right, I could afford 2 DD Zs, but for a loud daily application I came out way better w/ my TRFs. Of course I have a wonderful enclosure, massive amonts of deadener, 10kw on tap, and a stout electrical. Anything that would have taken the power would have got pretty loud.