Question about DSP and imaging

[rovster]

I've got that other thread about the system in my truck. I am considering the JL amp with DSP. If the tweeter and mid are far apart and run on the same channel through a passive crossover will the DSP in the amp help with that or do I need them on seperate channels for that? I think I know the answer. I really wanted to avoid doing an elaborate setup with lots of SP and timing. I know I can attenuate the tweets if need be through the xover. Comments welcome, thanks!

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[spokey9]

To get full benefit from a dsp you'd be better off running each off its own channel

 

[rovster]

That's what I figured, pretty obvious actually. What I was thinking was between the built in DSP in the amp, and the attenuation of the crossover, is it enough to somewhat compensate for less than ideal physical separation between tweeter and mid?

Trying to keep the system as simple and lowkey as possible not looking for perfection but at the same time don't want it to sound really "off" either.

Thanks!

 

[spokey9]

If your head unit has a decent eq built in and the amp has good crossovers...you don't need a dsp to get good sound...

 

[rovster]

If your head unit has a decent eq built in and the amp has good crossovers...you don't need a dsp to get good sound...

Will be using a signal converter and the stock head unit. Its a new truck so not so easy to replace the head unit. The amp I'm considering is the JL VX1000/5i. Pricey but seems to have lots of features in a small package which is perfect for what I'm trying to do. The component set will come with passive crossovers.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

That's what I figured, pretty obvious actually. What I was thinking was between the built in DSP in the amp, and the attenuation of the crossover, is it enough to somewhat compensate for less than ideal physical separation between tweeter and mid?

Trying to keep the system as simple and lowkey as possible not looking for perfection but at the same time don't want it to sound really "off" either.

Thanks!

Depends on how ideal you want the system to be? Are you going to notice rainbowing in the soundstage? Are you going to notice a null or peak created by PLD? Do you even listen to the type of music that it matters that your soundstage is really dialed in? Do you have the test tracks and/or equipment to tune a DSP?

If you're just trying to get decent sound, passives generally work.

 

[Bigballs420]

I would forgo the 5 channel vxi. Grab the 6 channel. Grab a mono that suits your needs.
The 6 channel vxi has 2 sets of processed outputs. That you can use for the sub.
This way you have the channels for a 3 way plus sub.
If you grab the 5 channel you'll be limited in channels. You'll actually need the passive. With the six or even better the 8 channel.
The 8 channel will allow you to bridge 2 channels for the midbass and still 4 channels for each mid and tweeter.

 

[rovster]

@Bigballs420

I appreciate the response but I’m a little lost forgive me. It’s been a while lol. Reason I liked the 5i is that substantial mono output seems perfect to run the stealth box. I see what you’re saying about the 8 channel amp but I’d be afraid bridging that last 2 channels for the subs would not have enough juice. Sorry not super up to date on electronics have a general sense on how these things work but once I get beyond the basics I get a little lost. Almost sounds like I need a 6 channel + mono but was hoping to keep the number of pieces to a minimum and trying to avoid needing to up the supportive equipment like battery and alternator. Sorry if this comes across as ignorant still learning….takes a little longer than it did in high school lol

 

[Bigballs420]

@Bigballs420

I appreciate the response but I’m a little lost forgive me. It’s been a while lol. Reason I liked the 5i is that substantial mono output seems perfect to run the stealth box. I see what you’re saying about the 8 channel amp but I’d be afraid bridging that last 2 channels for the subs would not have enough juice. Sorry not super up to date on electronics have a general sense on how these things work but once I get beyond the basics I get a little lost. Almost sounds like I need a 6 channel + mono but was hoping to keep the number of pieces to a minimum and trying to avoid needing to up the supportive equipment like battery and alternator. Sorry if this comes across as ignorant still learning….takes a little longer than it did in high school lol

If you bridge 4 channels of the 8 channels into 2 channels. You essentially have a staggered powered 6 channel. The bridged channels would be for your midbass in a 3 way plus sub.
You would then use the preouts to a mono block.
Thats only 2 things. A fuse block to split the power and still have fuses on the smaller wire is the only added install work. You wouldn't even need a distro for the ground. You could just run two wires to the same spot.
But the added flexibility is very substantial.
You would have enough power and enough channels to do anything you want really.
The only limitations would be your own mind.
But with the 5 channel. That's it. Your stuck.
Annnd the cost is about the same.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

My simplified answer. Higher end coaxials in the stock door locations with the subwoofer out back. No dash speakers, no rear speakers. The dash speakers bouncing the sound off the glass does weird things and is going to raise the image possibly in a bad way with mids also in the doors. Rear speakers? Save the money and get better door speakers. Also it will be more simple to use a DSP on the door speakers and the tweeters being right in the middle of the mids is the icing on the cake.

 

[rovster]

My simplified answer. Higher end coaxials in the stock door locations with the subwoofer out back. No dash speakers, no rear speakers. The dash speakers bouncing the sound off the glass does weird things and is going to raise the image possibly in a bad way with mids also in the doors. Rear speakers? Save the money and get better door speakers. Also it will be more simple to use a DSP on the door speakers and the tweeters being right in the middle of the mids is the icing on the cake.

Interesting. Already considering pretty nice components up front would not be opposed to mounting the tweet lower. The way I see it the only 2 places to mount the tweeter in the door is just above the speaker grille or up higher by the window but that one looks tight May have to use a spacer.

I’ll attach some picks of the doors and dash locations if that helps you guys visualize the situation. Thanks again really taking all these comments in.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Oh yeah, with coaxials the tweeters are going to be down low too. Meaning the distance from your ears will be similar. Time alignment could make them sound great!!

 

[rovster]

Oh yeah, with coaxials the tweeters are going to be down low too. Meaning the distance from your ears will be similar. Time alignment could make them sound great!!

So you’re saying go with coax? Or is it better to go component and mount the tweeter a little higher on the door.

Currently doing a deep dive on you tube on DSL and timing I had a vague concept of the idea but far from any concrete understanding. Back in the day it was all about power and bass now I’m looking for a more well rounded quality sound….with a little thump

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

So you’re saying go with coax? Or is it better to go component and mount the tweeter a little higher on the door.

Currently doing a deep dive on you tube on DSL and timing I had a vague concept of the idea but far from any concrete understanding. Back in the day it was all about power and bass now I’m looking for a more well rounded quality sound….with a little thump

Like a point source speaker, imaging can be better the closer you get the tweeter to the center of the midrange driver. There are companies that make components that are also coaxial (convertible) speakers so that you could use a crossover or go full active and amplify each speaker. Here are just two ideas...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004XWBEEC/?tag=caraudiocom-20

Kicker Q-Class 41QSS654

QS Series 6-1/2" component speaker system

www.crutchfield.com

 

[rovster]

Thanks for the suggestion that set looks nice I’ll definitely put it on list for consideration and it’s about in budget for what I wanted to spend for the front