HA! Almost forgot about this install!!!

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

This is making one false assumption... that there IS NO CLIPPING.
99.9% of the time, having too small of an amp == clipping, a LOT of the time.

Many amps have very POOR clipping behaviour... it's not unusual for them to momentarily "latch up"... and send out bursts of DC on the output. Doesn't take much DC, to make a voice coil light up like a space heater element. Without the cooling effect of voice coil movement in the gap (which a small amp CAN'T generate, since it can't generate enough AC voltage swing), the DC will readily fry the adhesives the speaker voice coil is assembled with...

I can readily demonstrate the effects of hard clipping of a small amp, on a big speaker... I work on PA equipment, for a daily gig. Lemme hook up a 150w/ch amp- something, maybe, like a Behringer (ie, bulls***) amp- to a 1000w Electrovoice EVX180 18" pro subwoofer... wind the volume up to max, and watch the amp go into momentary DC. Bet the woofer will die within 10 minutes...

The point here: CLIPPING can destroy a speaker, NO MATTER if the speaker is rated at MUCH more power than the amp is rated...

Regards,

Gordon.

You explained it , it's not the clipping itself . It's the byproduct of the clipping exceeding the thermal capacity of the coils //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[wesl56 10+ year member]

Plus he is hurting those drivers with to little of power.

simple way to prove this wrong... all of us would be damaging our subs every time we turned the volume down... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/beatdeadhorse5.gif.5d70132dea1eb89b73bf2fdbb6027dd6.gif i know, i know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[headless 10+ year member]

This is making one false assumption... that there IS NO CLIPPING.
The point here: CLIPPING can destroy a speaker, NO MATTER if the speaker is rated at MUCH more power than the amp is rated...

Regards,

Gordon.

Right. But pushing 100w into a speaker rated @ 1000w isn't what destroys it; pushing it a clipped ass signal is. If the gains were set correctly on that amp, it wouldn't be clipping... and thus the statement underpowering a speaker does not damage it remains true.

 

[supraman1379 10+ year member]

simple way to prove this wrong... all of us would be damaging our subs every time we turned the volume down... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/beatdeadhorse5.gif.5d70132dea1eb89b73bf2fdbb6027dd6.gif i know, i know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

I like this way of putting it. It sounds about right lol.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

This is making one false assumption... that there IS NO CLIPPING.
99.9% of the time, having too small of an amp == clipping, a LOT of the time.

Many amps have very POOR clipping behaviour... it's not unusual for them to momentarily "latch up"... and send out bursts of DC on the output. Doesn't take much DC, to make a voice coil light up like a space heater element. Without the cooling effect of voice coil movement in the gap (which a small amp CAN'T generate, since it can't generate enough AC voltage swing), the DC will readily fry the adhesives the speaker voice coil is assembled with...

I can readily demonstrate the effects of hard clipping of a small amp, on a big speaker... I work on PA equipment, for a daily gig. Lemme hook up a 150w/ch amp- something, maybe, like a Behringer (ie, bulls***) amp- to a 1000w Electrovoice EVX180 18" pro subwoofer... wind the volume up to max, and watch the amp go into momentary DC. Bet the woofer will die within 10 minutes...

The point here: CLIPPING can destroy a speaker, NO MATTER if the speaker is rated at MUCH more power than the amp is rated...

Regards,

Gordon.

this is wrong in sooooooooo many levels.......

Lets put it this way, if capacitor will pass it. It's not DC.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

What does DC sound like? Clipping contains NO DC elements. The flattening of the wave you see on a scope is infact high frequency information. Not DC. An audio amplifier cannont, I repeat, CANNONT emit DC throughs it's outputs unless you broke it.

Clipping doesn't destroy spekers either. As mentioned earlier, there's only 2 or sometimes 3 ways to damage a speaker.

1.) Surpass its mechanical limits.

2.) Surpass its thermal limits.

3.) Purpossily destroy it.

 

[Mr. Opportunist 10+ year member]

Wish I had my camera for the install at the DB Drag on Sat. 4 15's in tubes installed in a Hundai Accent. Of course the were secured by ratcheting tie straps.... I'm gonna try and find a pic or two...

tubes are loud //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif (being serious not a smartass)

 

[headless 10+ year member]

Clipping causes thermal overload (square waves = no movement and periods of high current draw without movement/air cooling) = clipping destroys speakers, was how i always understood it, dbfan. Is that incorrect?

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

Clipping causes thermal overload (square waves = no movement and periods of high current draw without movement/air cooling) = clipping destroys speakers, was how i always understood it, dbfan. Is that incorrect?

no. the speaker never stops moving. The clipped sinewave still ocillates the same amount as a nonclipped wave would.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

Clipping causes thermal overload (square waves = no movement and periods of high current draw without movement/air cooling) = clipping destroys speakers, was how i always understood it, dbfan. Is that incorrect?

You can clip the **** out of a speaker and not ruin it as long as you don't go beyond it's thermal power handling...

OVERPOWERING destroys speakers.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

I'll let werewolf, Richard Clark, Mark Eldrige, Mansville Smith, and Rob explain it better.

http://www.carsound.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4332&highlight=clipping

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

I'll let werewolf, Richard Clark, Mark Eldrige, Mansville Smith, and Rob explain it better.
http://www.carsound.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4332&highlight=clipping

GOOD ****ING THREAD.

 

[Decipha 10+ year member]

actually just to fuel this blaze.. you can overpower a sub past its rms as long as its clean power... most subs with the right box can survive for years to come even with excess NON CLIPPED power

^^not always but some times

 

[headless 10+ year member]

Mansville Smith describes in post #7 what i know/had heard of how clipping effect avg power output... (thus the 'and periods of high current draw' in my first post) -- i had combined this concept with the idea that a speaker would be 'stuck' at the ends of it's excursion for the clipped signals squared duration but it makes sense that it would bounce around some and not be totally still. Nevertheless, bouncing at the end of excursion rather than moving entirely through a wavelength has to make some difference in thermal handling, even if it's not a big one. I do believe that the primary cause of heating is the fact that your RMS wattage goes way up when you try to push a clipped signal...i guess i should take the concept of no cone movement out of the equation for the most part. Thanks for the link, DBfan...it'd been a while since i read that explanation.

 

[Decipha 10+ year member]

I think that's a funky ass looking setup.. i would personally hate to drive a vehicle that had something like that in the rear

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

actually just to fuel this blaze.. you can overpower a sub past its rms as long as its clean power... most subs with the right box can survive for years to come even with excess NON CLIPPED power

^^not always but some times

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif no.