Winners only.

[RobGMN Premium Member]

I get that Rob, but you’re acting like the free market and supply and demand are dictating prices and that’s just not true. “Prices are determined” by supply and demand. That’s a trick of words. The USDA looks at market data and sets prices based on a algorithm with metadata in a software program. It’s still a price able to be manipulated artificially. You seem to think that farmers inherently have money, but that’s backwards. Only people with a lot of money can be farmers now, so a lot of farmers are rich. It’s corporate farming. The prices have been purposely squeezed based on simple math of production/acre to set the economic conditions to force the need of a ton of land and bulk farming to make money, squeezing out family farms. Every dumb farm hick in Kansas figured this out years ago, but why listen to a dumb farm hick?,,,,

I'm trying to reconcile the idea that the USDA sets prices when the prices are set by sales and purchases in the exchange markets.
That's like saying the government sets the stock price for Microsoft, when it's the market trading that actually does it.

Wheat prices can be affected by government action, but it's the market traders that actually set those prices. And ANYONE can trade in those open markets, just like the various stock markets.
If open public trading drives the prices, how does the USDA "look at market data and set the price based on an algorithm"? What is their actual mechanism to do so? Do they just go in and change the market price at will? Wheat closes at $6 and then opens the next day at $8 with no trading?
if there is an utter glut of wheat, can the government make the price higher, or does oversupply still drive prices down? If there is a shortage, can they force the price to stay low even though demand is high?

I never said farmers are rich. I spoke to the subsidies they receive that (as you infer) can be used to "buy their vote". Pay the subsidies and get another vote for the GOP.
Farming is not a rich man's game, but it CAN be with the right crop. Hemp can get $40,000+ per acre, but I dunno what the COGS is. I'm sure it's a better money crop than corn by far, though.

You state that prices have been "squeezed" on purpose, but that sounds conspiratorial. A ton of land is needed to produce the sheer volume of product that is needed. Just imagine what it takes to provide produce for a single business in a day: Disney Orlando. With up to 200,000 visitors per day, how much beef, chicken, lettuce, green beans, etc. must they go through? Small produce farms just cannot be competitive in a big market. it's not a conspiracy to get rid of them, it's business that has gone on the same way for centuries.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

And make no mistake, we are almost socialist now. Look up the definition and tell me we aren’t. Socialism doesn’t mean no free market exists. I don’t get why we are so ignorant as to what socialism is and live right in the middle of socialism as we speak.

Part of the problem is that most people don't know the difference between socialism, capitalism, communism, democracy, social democracy, fascism, etc, etc, etc.
They throw the words around after hearing someone else (who also doesn't know what they mean) saying them in a context they like, and then sound like idiots doing so.

 

[SlugButter]

I'm trying to reconcile the idea that the USDA sets prices when the prices are set by sales and purchases in the exchange markets.
That's like saying the government sets the stock price for Microsoft, when it's the market trading that actually does it.

Wheat prices can be affected by government action, but it's the market traders that actually set those prices. And ANYONE can trade in those open markets, just like the various stock markets.
If open public trading drives the prices, how does the USDA "look at market data and set the price based on an algorithm"? What is their actual mechanism to do so? Do they just go in and change the market price at will? Wheat closes at $6 and then opens the next day at $8 with no trading?
if there is an utter glut of wheat, can the government make the price higher, or does oversupply still drive prices down? If there is a shortage, can they force the price to stay low even though demand is high?

I never said farmers are rich. I spoke to the subsidies they receive that (as you infer) can be used to "buy their vote". Pay the subsidies and get another vote for the GOP.
Farming is not a rich man's game, but it CAN be with the right crop. Hemp can get $40,000+ per acre, but I dunno what the COGS is. I'm sure it's a better money crop than corn by far, though.

You state that prices have been "squeezed" on purpose, but that sounds conspiratorial. A ton of land is needed to produce the sheer volume of product that is needed. Just imagine what it takes to provide produce for a single business in a day: Disney Orlando. With up to 200,000 visitors per day, how much beef, chicken, lettuce, green beans, etc. must they go through? Small produce farms just cannot be competitive in a big market. it's not a conspiracy to get rid of them, it's business that has gone on the same way for centuries.

It’s a futures market based on crop reports, easily manipulated by even just delaying the crop reports so that trading starts before you can even analyze it. That allows large scale stock traders to gobble things up and manipulate the commodities futures market. Kraft was accused not too long ago of trying to manipulate the price of wheat. There are alot of ways a corrupt corporation and government officials can fix a market to favor larger companies. I’m not sure why all the corporate/government corruption all the sudden just disappeared in the minds of people lately, but it’s been around for decades.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

It’s a futures market based on crop reports, easily manipulated by even just delaying the crop reports so that trading starts before you can even analyze it. That allows large scale stock traders to gobble things up and manipulate the commodities futures market. Kraft was accused not too long ago of trying to manipulate the price of wheat. There are alot of ways a corrupt corporation and government officials can fix a market to favor larger companies. I’m not sure why all the corporate/government corruption all the sudden just disappeared in the minds of people lately, but it’s been around for decades.

So the people who do the crop reports are in cahoots with the traders. In other words, large scale insider trading and fraud that no one is aware of and regulating or trying to prevent.
How does that balance with all the technical traders and contrarians who also affect prices on a large scale? Trying to affect prices is what traders DO. Have you ever gotten an email with stock tips? Those people are trying to manipulate prices by getting others to buy and drive up prices artificially.
That’s the buying and selling game. If Kraft tried to do it illegally, it’s a problem. If not, that’s the game.
Corruption is and forever will be. From the kid who swipes a piece of candy to the President who gets emoluments. Human nature.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Even illegals are protected by the COTUS. Are they considering the family separations human rights violations?

Who cares? They caused the separations by allowing them into the country. The caused the violations... now taxpayer dollars will fund their future votes.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

You described this as a “political argument”. If that doesn’t reflect what you are thinking, maybe choose different words?

You sound like Thxone: “Stop taking the words I typed literally. I don’t really know what I’m saying. Neither should you.”

You don't even do that. You literally make up what you think others mean and then tell them, this is what you meant.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Who cares? They caused the separations by allowing them into the country. The caused the violations... now taxpayer dollars will fund their future votes.

Your logic is incredibly flawed.
You get t-boned by someone who runs a light at an intersection. YOUR fault for being there?
Cop pulls you over for speeding and decides to shoot you. YOUR fault for being there?

Not how the laws in our country work, nor is it how normal logic of reality works.

Someone breaking the law does not allow us to break the laws in our treatment of them. Hell, we save the lives of enemy soldiers we’ve shot and captured.
You know, those pesky laws and all.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

You don't even do that. You literally make up what you think others mean and then tell them, this is what you meant.

Quoting your very words is NOT an interpretation. Do you put actual effort into not knowing the most basic of things?

 

[SlugButter]

So the people who do the crop reports are in cahoots with the traders. In other words, large scale insider trading and fraud that no one is aware of and regulating or trying to prevent.
How does that balance with all the technical traders and contrarians who also affect prices on a large scale? Trying to affect prices is what traders DO. Have you ever gotten an email with stock tips? Those people are trying to manipulate prices by getting others to buy and drive up prices artificially.
That’s the buying and selling game. If Kraft tried to do it illegally, it’s a problem. If not, that’s the game.
Corruption is and forever will be. From the kid who swipes a piece of candy to the President who gets emoluments. Human nature.

I’m surprised you’re not a Republican. You defend corporate corruption like they did for decades. Have all those liberal democrats just been totally full of shit on this issue for the last 30 years? Democrats pushed through Obamacare based on corporate corruption ruining the entire healthcare system. Does that corruption not exist? Your political stances are very confusing.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

I’m surprised you’re not a Republican. You defend corporate corruption like they did for decades. Have all those liberal democrats just been totally full of shit on this issue for the last 30 years? Democrats pushed through Obamacare based on corporate corruption ruining the entire healthcare system. Does that corruption not exist? Your political stances are very confusing.

1. I said if business is done illegally, it’s a problem. I also said corruption exists in all walks of life. A free market operating as a free market is not a problem. Are you upset that big business exists and always has? Do you think we should switch to socialism? Communism? Eliminate capitalism?
2. Please explain how the ACA “ruined the system”. That was a talking point by Republicans before it went into effect, but suddenly forgotten when profits went up, costs went down, AND people were getting coverage who needed it.
3. I am not a member of any political party. I vote for the candidate that has the most “pros” in a pro/con evaluation,even when that candidate may not be the greatest in the overall picture. I do not waste my vote on an impossible dream, like many do.

 

[Jesus Christ]

I am not a member of any political party

Oh OK!!! back pedaling now are we?

 

[SlugButter]

1. I said if business is done illegally, it’s a problem. I also said corruption exists in all walks of life. A free market operating as a free market is not a problem. Are you upset that big business exists and always has? Do you think we should switch to socialism? Communism? Eliminate capitalism?
2. Please explain how the ACA “ruined the system”. That was a talking point by Republicans before it went into effect, but suddenly forgotten when profits went up, costs went down, AND people were getting coverage who needed it.
3. I am not a member of any political party. I vote for the candidate that has the most “pros” in a pro/con evaluation,even when that candidate may not be the greatest in the overall picture. I do not waste my vote on an impossible dream, like many do.

The entire argument leading up to enacting the ACA was that corporate insurance ruined the system by denying coverage for profit. I agreed with that. They then proceeded to give the entire healthcare system to the same exact insurance companies that were the cause of the problem, according to their own words. Those same companies recorded record profits and healthcare didn’t get any better. I’d say that is a failure. You taking the republicans side on insurance company profits doesn’t make any sense. That just reinforces my belief that democrats are just as corporatist as republicans, only on the sneak. Don’t have the guts to just be a republican?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Oh OK!!! back pedaling now are we?

Uhmmm, no. When did I declare an affiliation?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

The entire argument leading up to enacting the ACA was that corporate insurance ruined the system by denying coverage for profit. I agreed with that. They then proceeded to give the entire healthcare system to the same exact insurance companies that were the cause of the problem, according to their own words. Those same companies recorded record profits and healthcare didn’t get any better. I’d say that is a failure. You taking the republicans side on insurance company profits doesn’t make any sense. That just reinforces my belief that democrats are just as corporatist as republicans, only on the sneak. Don’t have the guts to just be a republican?

Stating facts is not taking sides.

It is a fact that Republicans were crying the ACA was going to crush insurance companies. Then it turned out profits actually increased. But they were committed, so they kept doing what they could to eliminate it. NOT fix it or make it better, just eliminate and regress.
Great plan.

The ACA is the Affordable Care Act. It was not meant to improve healthcare, it was meant to assure coverage for all citizens, affordably.
After is was enacted, there was a marked increase in insured Americans, and average costs did go down (not by much, but a decrease is a decrease).

I’m interested in hearing which of these statements is incorrect.

 

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