who killed the economy?!?!

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

In my opinion...big business (corporations) in America killed the economy. The minute we started outsourcing everything to India and China, the economy began to slide dramatically. Not to mention OPEC, and the oil prices. If we want to keep America as a superpower, big business needs to wake up. To have America succeed, then we have to keep jobs here, it is that simple. Its not Greenspan, its not interest rates...it boils down to business ethics. Businesses need to realize that saving a few bucks by outsourcing is going to bite everyone in the *** in the long run. Just my opinion though.

Outsourcing bites the American worker in the ***, but companies wouldn't be doing it if it didn't help their bottom dollar. Unfortunately the care for the American worker no longer exists, neither does a companies pride in its own country. The bottom dollar drives every decision, as an American that bugs the shit out of me, but how can you blame them? They have to compete in the global market with other businesses that are hiring buck fifty indians too //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[Ali1 10+ year member]

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[RangerMan Premium Member]

Outsourcing bites the American worker in the ***, but companies wouldn't be doing it if it didn't help their bottom dollar. Unfortunately the care for the American worker no longer exists, neither does a companies pride in its own country. The bottom dollar drives every decision, as an American that bugs the shit out of me, but how can you blame them? They have to compete in the global market with other businesses that are hiring buck fifty indians too //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Global economy is bullshit, and I hate it. I hate having to deal with the Chinese, because as a business student, the have a totally different set of ethics and way of doing things. I have seen it first hand, and they don't mind pissing on your head and calling it rain. I believe that America can have a self sufficient economy, and only rely on certain European countries that can be trusted, and go about doing things the right way. Furthermore, reliance on foreign oil is also killing us...I'm down with the offshore drilling and open up our reserves for the next few years until we can sufficiently get hydrogen cars on the market.

As for the American blue collar worker, I truly feel sorry for them. They are getting ****ed as a result of good old fashioned greed. However, the high minimum wage is really a problem as well, and I know people don't want to hear that, but would you rather get paid less money or nothing at all.

Oh, and how could I forget...Labor Unions...look at what GM is having to go through as a result of strong unions.

PS: this is one of the best topics I have seen on this forum in a long time.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

Global economy is bullshit, and I hate it. I hate having to deal with the Chinese, because as a business student, the have a totally different set of ethics and way of doing things. I have seen it first hand, and they don't mind pissing on your head and calling it rain. I believe that America can have a self sufficient economy, and only rely on certain European countries that can be trusted, and go about doing things the right way. Furthermore, reliance on foreign oil is also killing us...I'm down with the offshore drilling and open up our reserves for the next few years until we can sufficiently get hydrogen cars on the market.
As for the American blue collar worker, I truly feel sorry for them. They are getting ****ed as a result of good old fashioned greed. However, the high minimum wage is really a problem as well, and I know people don't want to hear that, but would you rather get paid less money or nothing at all.

Oh, and how could I forget...Labor Unions...look at what GM is having to go through as a result of strong unions.

PS: this is one of the best topics I have seen on this forum in a long time.

I'm right there with you, but I have no answers as to where we go from here, and that probably bugs me the most. I understand when company A sells a service or product for a set price and company B comes in with foreign labor and undercuts their price due to cheaper production/service people/etc. What is company A supposed to do to keep up except go hire some offshored labor too. Unfortunately hiring American doesn't gain your stock any points //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Agreed maybe some of us have become a little to comfortable with our lifestyles and that may have to change in the future to compete with the global labor market. I see one of a few things happening:

1. Wages in the US dropping to match foreign markets
   
2. Foreign labor getting smart and demanding better wages (supply of labor to demand doesn't dictate that though)
   
3. Level of service in offshored labor will continue to **** and consumers, citizens and corporations, will start requesting domestic labor at a premium (I can dream can't I)
   
4. Less regulation domestically so we can make lead paint toys too and boost local manufacturing
   

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

In my opinion...big business (corporations) in America killed the economy. The minute we started outsourcing everything to India and China, the economy began to slide dramatically. Not to mention OPEC, and the oil prices. If we want to keep America as a superpower, big business needs to wake up. To have America succeed, then we have to keep jobs here, it is that simple. Its not Greenspan, its not interest rates...it boils down to business ethics. Businesses need to realize that saving a few bucks by outsourcing is going to bite everyone in the *** in the long run. Just my opinion though.

We were just having this very conversation last night. Free enterprise will eventually kill itself and America as a result will fall. Most likely not in our lifetime but it will happen.

There are too many problems and not enough answers right now.

 

[RangerMan Premium Member]

I'm right there with you, but I have no answers as to where we go from here, and that probably bugs me the most. I understand when company A sells a service or product for a set price and company B comes in with foreign labor and undercuts their price due to cheaper production/service people/etc. What is company A supposed to do to keep up except go hire some offshored labor too. Unfortunately hiring American doesn't gain your stock any points //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif
Agreed maybe some of us have become a little to comfortable with our lifestyles and that may have to change in the future to compete with the global labor market. I see one of a few things happening:

1. Wages in the US dropping to match foreign markets
   
2. Foreign labor getting smart and demanding better wages (supply of labor to demand doesn't dictate that though)
   
3. Level of service in offshored labor will continue to **** and consumers, citizens and corporations, will start requesting domestic labor at a premium (I can dream can't I)
   

Unfortunately, we do live in a total free market economy. Usually, I am all for government to stay out of business dealings but something has to be done. I wish that there was some way to pass legislation requiring corporations to meet an American worker quota, but I don't see that ever happening, because you really hit the nail on the head, hiring American workers does nothing for a company's stock prices. I blame this whole thing on China and India, as selfish as it sounds, and I really hope that while all these American journalists are over in China for the Olympics this summer, they find out about all the dirty things that are really happening over there. Most Americans are totally out of the loop, and we have to get away from the Chinese and their products. Down with the People's Republic of China!

 

[RangerMan Premium Member]

We were just having this very conversation last night. Free enterprise will eventually kill itself and America as a result will fall. Most likely not in our lifetime but it will happen.
There are too many problems and not enough answers right now.

Totally true in my opinion...hopefully someone far smarter than myself can come up with an answer soon, because I cannot think of any real solutions. The only thing that I can think of is having American become the front runners in the production of hydrogen vehicles, but we are really balking on our chance to do so. This results mostly from the oil companies trying their hardest to get every cent they can out of gasoline powered vehicles. Bush has really ****ed us over in the sense that he is aligned with oil companies, and doesn't implement something to investigate their business dealings. For christ sakes, Exxon made a 3 BILLION dollar profit last year. And I am a Republican, but the economy is not an issue that should be separated by political parties...this is everyone's livelihood that we are talking about.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

I'm not so sure that exxon is who is boning us though, their profits are high but their margins are not. To an extent that is still money into the US economy, if we start sanctioning the oil companies any bets if the dollars on the American side of deals goes down but the money sent outside the US for supply (oil/etc) stays the same. I'd like to blame somebody to, but I don't think going down that road would help.

Thats the catch 22 that keeps fukn with me. There are places that I'd like to have the government step in, but I'm just not sure it'd have the intended consequence...

In closing....we're boned

 

[RangerMan Premium Member]

I'm not so sure that exxon is who is boning us though, their profits are high but their margins are not. To an extent that is still money into the US economy, if we start sanctioning the oil companies any bets if the dollars on the American side of deals goes down but the money sent outside the US for supply (oil/etc) stays the same. I'd like to blame somebody to, but I don't think going down that road would help.
Thats the catch 22 that keeps fukn with me. There are places that I'd like to have the government step in, but I'm just not sure it'd have the intended consequence...

In closing....we're boned

Eh, some genius will figure it out. Definitely not either of the two political candidates that we have to choose from. We have a long couple of years ahead of us, but hopefully we can figure it out pretty soon...there is always new technology that can revolutionize the world, we just have to be the forerunners in it to get back on top.

 

[richierich75 10+ year member]

No, it is not a bad thing for exporting countries...plus the high cost of fuel and shipping are making many firms reconsider building plants in China verus the US.
I can't wait until January 20th....cuz man...we are gonna whiz bang out of recession and the economy is going to be great...not by any real metric, but the only standard that counts...richierich75s.

shakes head...

.

typically measured by the GDP; which only measures quantity but has no input nor does it reflect the overall quality of life of the people within the economy; it is not a true barometer of economic growth or economic stability.

recession = not good economic success ( maybe not by definition, but by other "indicators" we are)

$600 billion deficit = not good economic success

falling dollar = not good economic success

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Thank you sweet baby jesus for sending us Obama. He will fix this country right up and we will have smooth sailing as long as a dem is in office.
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we are an exporting country as well...granted we import more than our exports, we still export; so by what you are saying the weak dollar is good for our country cause why...

I've never said that Jan 20th we are going to whiz bang out of this recession (which i guess you are now accepting and admitting that we are actually in one, regardless of the "definition" of which you have learned and hold so dear to your heart)

and Moke, I've never claimed to be voting for Obama either; as I have said previously, who ever in office is being handed a bag of shit and will no doubt be ridiculed for not having an immediate positive impact that everyone wants to see. But please tell me what makes McCain a so much better candidate. I really want to know what qualifies him as a better candidate

and i take it neither have anything to comment about the bolded comment

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

we are an exporting country as well...granted we import more than our exports, we still export; so by what you are saying the weak dollar is good for our country cause why...
I've never said that Jan 20th we are going to whiz bang out of this recession (which i guess you are now accepting and admitting that we are actually in one, regardless of the "definition" of which you have learned and hold so dear to your heart)

and Moke, I've never claimed to be voting for Obama either; as I have said previously, who ever in office is being handed a bag of shit and will no doubt be ridiculed for not having an immediate positive impact that everyone wants to see. But please tell me what makes McCain a so much better candidate. I really want to know what qualifies him as a better candidate

and i take it neither have anything to comment about the bolded comment

We have been in a recession. Thats not a secret. The economy will always cycle good to bad, no matter who is in office. The government also has very little to do with the status of the economy. Yes they make policy, but that isnt what caused the weak dollar. They didnt jack up oil prices and they didnt cause inflation. This is what is leading to the current status of our economy.

As far as whomever is President on the 20th, I really could care less. I worry more about myself than the Government.

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

no you apparently didn't cause if you did you would have or should have seen that it was a generalization I made;
I have not seen one instance on here where you have ever debated with me or held an intelligent conversation whatsoever, 11k posts and who are you, NOBODY!! You co-sign everyone else's shit and then jump in threads halfway through without reading all the posts and then you are the one who generalizes based off of one particular post within the thread - you sir are an *******

why would i debate/argue with you.

I learned long ago not to argue with an idiot, spectators may have a hard time figuring out which one is the idiot.

If you think I'm an ******* good, I did my job for the day.

 

[richierich75 10+ year member]

We have been in a recession. Thats not a secret. The economy will always cycle good to bad, no matter who is in office. The government also has very little to do with the status of the economy. Yes they make policy, but that isnt what caused the weak dollar. They didnt jack up oil prices and they didnt cause inflation. This is what is leading to the current status of our economy.
As far as whomever is President on the 20th, I really could care less. I worry more about myself than the Government.

But by "definition" we are not in a recession; although everything going on around you and I would tell/say otherwise.

I agree; the two party's have a totally different fiscal/monetary policy and the current admin has shown their irresponsibility with both. Typically you would think the gov't would have little to do with the status of the economy; but as I have said before there were several instances in which their decisions and actions have affected things; lowering the Fed "target" rate, War, threat of war with Iran etc...my point being is they may not have themselves directly, but their actions and policy's have, which for some reason people don't realize or want to realize.

I worry about myself as well; but what you don't realize is that who is in office directly affects your life; you may not feel it right away; i.e Patriot Act

 

[richierich75 10+ year member]

why would i debate/argue with you.
I learned long ago not to argue with an idiot, spectators may have a hard time figuring out which one is the idiot.

If you think I'm an ******* good, I did my job for the day.

this is grown folk discussion, go play ninja turtles

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

we are an exporting country as well...granted we import more than our exports, we still export; so by what you are saying the weak dollar is good for our country cause why...
I've never said that Jan 20th we are going to whiz bang out of this recession (which i guess you are now accepting and admitting that we are actually in one, regardless of the "definition" of which you have learned and hold so dear to your heart)

and i take it neither have anything to comment about the bolded comment

I admitted I think we are in a recession many threads ago.

We import more than we export is what is causing the problems with the current account...thus driving down the dollar. People who buy imported goods drives down the dollar....that is how exchanges work.

Because of data lags, we won't know we are in a recession by definition until 6 months after the recession has began.