When will mod elections be held?

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

this thread sucks.

No news here.

 

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

I agree, except in the cases (as stated) where there is a signed contract or dealer agreement. Then it's a question of an authorized dealer violating an agreement.
It's also a question of how much the end customer values support, service, and most importantly warranty. That's the biggest reason markup is there at all.

nG

You're right, a contract is a contract whether you agree with the terms or not. You signed the piece of paper, you should own it.

If Jacob provides the support, what difference does it make what margin the dealer carries? Not to mention these amps are going for near B&M prices, charging for overhead they don't have, simply because they can.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

You're right, a contract is a contract whether you agree with the terms or not. You signed the piece of paper, you should own it.
If Jacob provides the support, what difference does it make what margin the dealer carries? Not to mention these amps are going for near B&M prices, charging for overhead they don't have, simply because they can.

So manufacturers of anything or resellers shouldnt be allowed to make a profit and an honest living? They should just make and sell things to break even?

 

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

So manufacturers of anything or resellers shouldnt be allowed to make a profit and an honest living? They should just make and sell things to break even?

Are you unable to read? Did you miss where it was the dealers going under the MAP pricing? Do you not understand the concept behind sales volume? The dealers wouldnt be selling them to lose money. Theres a difference between 'breaking even' and making a living. You dont have to **** customers to make a living...

Where is the overhead coming from for sundowns amps? It's not like they're JL and have a bunch of engineers, PR firms, etc. to pay. These are generic designs with his name on it. What sets him apart is how well he takes care of customers. He can do that without having his dealers **** people. Would probably be better to adapt and refine your company rather than stick with a failing business model.

Wanna know a big reason why the industry isn't the same it used to be? People realize they dont have to get ****ed for equipment, so they aren't. Why should i pay those over inflated dealer prices. For the 'experience'? It's just another feature i don't need. I don't need someone to tell me how to install my equipment.. i can do that myself. If someone needs that, good for them, they can pony up. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Annnarbor84 5,000+ posts]

Are you unable to read? Did you miss where it was the dealers going under the MAP pricing? Do you not understand the concept behind sales volume? The dealers wouldnt be selling them to lose money. Theres a difference between 'breaking even' and making a living. You dont have to **** customers to make a living...
Where is the overhead coming from for sundowns amps? It's not like they're JL and have a bunch of engineers, PR firms, etc. to pay. These are generic designs with his name on it. What sets him apart is how well he takes care of customers. He can do that without having his dealers **** people. Would probably be better to adapt and refine your company rather than stick with a failing business model.

Wanna know a big reason why the industry isn't the same it used to be? People realize they dont have to get ****ed for equipment, so they aren't. Why should i pay those over inflated dealer prices. For the 'experience'? It's just another feature i don't need. I don't need someone to tell me how to install my equipment.. i can do that myself. If someone needs that, good for them, they can pony up. Nothing wrong with that.

So I take it paying for customer service is a no go:laugh:

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Amplifier quality is difficult to discern these days. Some people see quality through the price they pay, as is common with many other complex or misunderstood products. While others see amplifier quality as based on if it is 'underrated' or 'overrated', a trend many manufacturers have ome to realize and now simply output the same quality they use to, but market their amplifiers as slightly less output than they are truly capable of, which of course means it must be a quality piece.

There is definitely differences in amplifier quality, as can be seen in component quality, basic design differences, board layouts, etc. Im not suggesting a Tru Tech Copper series and a Pyramid amplifier as basically the same. True audiophiles, listening to very well known tracks, in near-ideal circumstances: extremely low noise floor, otherwise very well experienced with the other equipment in the system (especially the speakers), can justify spending massive amounts of money on the highest quality amplifiers out there. But most people, those audiophiles included, could not simply sit down and listen to someone elses system, or even their own system with the amplifier replaced, and accurately describe the brand or amplifier being used. When's the last time someone sat in your car, without ever knowing what you had, and accurately say "you are using Phoenix gold amplifiers arent you"? But 9 out of 10 people, upon SEEING the brand of amp you use, will either praise it as quality, or turn their nose up at it as junk. Trust your ears, not your eyes.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Amplifier quality is difficult to discern these days. Some people see quality through the price they pay, as is common with many other complex or misunderstood products. While others see amplifier quality as based on if it is 'underrated' or 'overrated', a trend many manufacturers have ome to realize and now simply output the same quality they use to, but market their amplifiers as slightly less output than they are truly capable of, which of course means it must be a quality piece.

There is definitely differences in amplifier quality, as can be seen in component quality, basic design differences, board layouts, etc. Im not suggesting a Tru Tech Copper series and a Pyramid amplifier as basically the same. True audiophiles, listening to very well known tracks, in near-ideal circumstances: extremely low noise floor, otherwise very well experienced with the other equipment in the system (especially the speakers), can justify spending massive amounts of money on the highest quality amplifiers out there. But most people, those audiophiles included, could not simply sit down and listen to someone elses system, or even their own system with the amplifier replaced, and accurately describe the brand or amplifier being used. When's the last time someone sat in your car, without ever knowing what you had, and accurately say "you are using Phoenix gold amplifiers arent you"? But 9 out of 10 people, upon SEEING the brand of amp you use, will either praise it as quality, or turn their nose up at it as junk. Trust your ears, not your eyes.

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

You're right, a contract is a contract whether you agree with the terms or not. You signed the piece of paper, you should own it.
If Jacob provides the support, what difference does it make what margin the dealer carries? Not to mention these amps are going for near B&M prices, charging for overhead they don't have, simply because they can.

Near B&M prices? L O L... have you worked at any retail or B&M audio store? B&M prices are WAY outta the park.

Sad thing is, shop I used to work at sold MTX like non other. MTX TA92001 or TE4001D's sold for $2000, that's right TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS and we sold dozens of them... And they're ~4000rms @14.4v

Just for a comparison.

nG

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

Because people are starting to pay what the products are worth? The audio world consists of so much snake oil and pure bullshit that it becomes difficult to comprehend. The only thing making sundown even remotely different than anyone else is good support. If he can't maintain that because dealers are selling too much of his product, and selling it for a fair price... thats a shame. The amps themselves are nothing spectacular. It's not an insult, its the truth. Infact, most amplifiers are nothing special, and thats completely fine with me. In fact, almost all the products are based on common designs. You guys should deFinitely know that better than anyone.

This has nothing to do with Snake oil, it has to a business agreement between companies, and some of those 'companies' or 'rep's' not up holding that agreement or purposely breaking it just to make a quick buck. As for designs, Sundown has quality designs that they started from and have adjusted due to testing, demand, and goals. As for our products, just because a few parts are shared, that does not mean squat in terms of a common design, countless companies share parts across the board, that does not mean they are the same design.

 

[S.B.C. 10+ year member]

This has nothing to do with Snake oil, it has to a business agreement between companies, and some of those 'companies' or 'rep's' not up holding that agreement or purposely breaking it just to make a quick buck. As for designs, Sundown has quality designs that they started from and have adjusted due to testing, demand, and goals. As for our products, just because a few parts are shared, that does not mean squat in terms of a common design, countless companies share parts across the board, that does not mean they are the same design.

They (people making a quick buck) wont be around long anyway.

 

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

Near B&M prices? L O L... have you worked at any retail or B&M audio store? B&M prices are WAY outta the park.
Sad thing is, shop I used to work at sold MTX like non other. MTX TA92001 or TE4001D's sold for $2000, that's right TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS and we sold dozens of them... And they're ~4000rms @14.4v

Just for a comparison.

nG

Yes i have. Worked at a arc, memphis, eclipse, sony, clarion dealer. Found our prices to be very reasonable. For example, Arc KS 300.2 and 300.4 for example, 275-300 sticker. Sundown 125.2 is 200 plus shipping... Think i'll go with the arc.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

Wow. We sure got side tracked ITT.

Stop whoring up the thunderdome, bitch!

 

[speedfreak28 10+ year member]

They (people making a quick buck) wont be around long anyway.

ohhh, the irony