What is?

[ThxOne Premium Member]

The statistics have been provided here probably dozens of times.
Here they are yet again. They are accepted by the medical and science community, therefore it’s your job to disprove them if you want to say they are faked.
Use your extensive background in virology, immunology, biology, anatomy, statistics. Do not fall back on your usual “numbers can be faked” or “only left-wing idiots will believe a study involving 600,000 people” or some other garbage.
Unless that’s the best you can do?

How We Know That the COVID-19 Vaccines Work

We keep hearing that the COVID-19 vaccines work but some people have asked us, “How do we know that they work?” Luckily, we have a growing trove of data that show that these vaccines are indeed effective against catching the virus, transmitting it to other people, and ending up in the hospital...

www.mcgill.ca

CDT Redirect Page

covid.cdc.gov

What doctors wish patients knew about how well COVID-19 vaccines work

There have been individuals who were vaccinated and boosted yet still acquired SARS-CoV-2. Does that mean vaccination is ineffective? Find out with the AMA.

www.ama-assn.org

Ahh the burden of proof fallacy.

Statistics -
the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

Show me where "statistics" can see the future or can determine whether something caused an action or prevented one.

 

[djdilliodon!]

For the record. Any studies really from 2021 or earlier must be taken with a grain of salt. We know you can still get covid and have seen plenty of testing on shedding and all that bs to know it does nothing to prevent you from spreading it or getting it. Let’s stick to the facts, and the facts are that the vaccine indeed triggers an immune response just like when you get it your body does on its own. Getting that immune response helps your body for the next time you get it lowering your chances of severe complications if you are a person at high risk (old or have pre existing health conditions). Ok now carry on

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Yeah ya know, I don't think that it did. How do we know the Vax did anything? How do we know that the people who got the vax would have had to go to the hospital at all if they didn't get the vax? We don't know. How can we know a thing that never happened??? Oh they got the vax so they didn't have to go to the hospital... really, show the proof that the vax prevented ANYONE from having to go to the hospital.

If you don't believe in large scale statistical analysis, I'm not going to try and sell you on it. That was some science teacher's job when you were in HS. All I can say is vaxxed people enjoyed a huge statistical advantage over the unvaxxed in outcomes, not to mention not catching covid at all, which would be more difficult to track.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

For the record. Any studies really from 2021 or earlier must be taken with a grain of salt. We know you can still get covid and have seen plenty of testing on shedding and all that bs to know it does nothing to prevent you from spreading it or getting it. Let’s stick to the facts, and the facts are that the vaccine indeed triggers an immune response just like when you get it your body does on its own. Getting that immune response helps your body for the next time you get it lowering your chances of severe complications if you are a person at high risk (old or have pre existing health conditions). Ok now carry on

That's not necessarily a given. Some people think the vaccine was a bioweapon, rewrites your DNA, different vaccines and dosages were used on different populations, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Ahh the burden of proof fallacy.

Statistics -
the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

Show me where "statistics" can see the future or can determine whether something caused an action or prevented one.

Actuary tables....

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Ahh the burden of proof fallacy.

Statistics -
the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

Show me where "statistics" can see the future or can determine whether something caused an action or prevented one.

Statistics are used to analyze the past. Analysis of the past can be used to reliably predict the future. It’s been proved time and again.

You want an example? Flip a quarter. Statistical analysis has shown that your probability of getting “tails” in one flip is 50/50. They also show that your odds in 1,000 flips are 500/1,000.
Until you do a study test proves the odds wrong, the statistics can be used to reliably predict future events.
That single example proves you are wrong.
Statistics show that the vaccine worked in the past. Unless you think you can go back in time and change those statistics, they’ll always be the same. They will always show that the vaccine worked.

Theory of Probability

www.pas.rochester.edu

BTW - You referenced the burden of proof fallacy incorrectly.
That fallacy is what you are guilty of every time you claim you gave a proof that you never gave, or every time you make a claim and demand others prove it for you.
Another fail.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Statistics are used to analyze the past. Analysis of the past can be used to reliably predict the future. It’s been proved time and again.

You want an example? Flip a quarter. Statistical analysis has shown that your probability of getting “tails” in one flip is 50/50. They also show that your odds in 1,000 flips are 500/1,000.
Until you do a study test proves the odds wrong, the statistics can be used to reliably predict future events.
That single example proves you are wrong.
Statistics show that the vaccine worked in the past. Unless you think you can go back in time and change those statistics, they’ll always be the same. They will always show that the vaccine worked.

Theory of Probability

www.pas.rochester.edu

BTW - You referenced the burden of proof fallacy incorrectly.
That fallacy is what you are guilty of every time you claim you gave a proof that you never gave, or every time you make a claim and demand others prove it for you.
Another fail.

Listen, both of you. I don't care how much the both of you want to prop up statistics. You can show charts and graphs and all that stuff you want. No matter what you do it cannot predict or prove that a vaccine caused or prevented an action.

Yes, they can show statistics based on the past but when it comes to predictions, that is all it is, a prediction and predictions can go either way. Statistics cannot show how a vaccine will affect a person, how it will affect a virus in that person or if that person will be fine without a vaccine or if they will have to go to the hospital. Statistics don't do that. They can help you make an educated guess. That is all. Argue until you are blue in the face but it will not change these facts.

 

[metalheadjoe 10+ year member]

Specifically the covid vax. I believe if you look at data say 10 years from now, we'll find that the vax prevents illness.

You have reached the point of too dumb to argue with.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Actuary tables....

Used to PREDICT. Predictions are not an exact science.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Specifically the covid vax. I believe if you look at data say 10 years from now, we'll find that the vax prevents illness.

It doesn't prevent illness now...

 

[djdilliodon!]

That's not necessarily a given. Some people think the vaccine was a bioweapon, rewrites your DNA, different vaccines and dosages were used on different populations, etc, etc, etc.

Come on jimi77, you and I both know that we take all of that part with a grain of salt . It’s too soon imo to make those kind of assumptions. Sure you can believe in it, you can state your argument about it, but you can’t get mad if no one believes in it. You most certainly can’t say it’s 100% fact either. The only thing we know so far is it’s china’s fault, covid is the longest lasting thing made in china, we know the vaccines made drug companies lots of money and we paid for it, we know it caused an insane amount of mail in voting, and we basically became communist for a little awhile . We also know this crap is over, and even if the future proves the vaccine is no good for you it doesn’t even matter cause you can’t sue anyway .

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Listen, both of you. I don't care how much the both of you want to prop up statistics. You can show charts and graphs and all that stuff you want. No matter what you do it cannot predict or prove that a vaccine caused or prevented an action.

Just because mathematics (even the basic stuff) is over your head, does not mean it is by default incorrect.
Here’s a crazy use of statistics for you: Casinos can adjust the odds on their games to achieve a payout that they choose.
Yep, they predict the future, and they do it accurately and consistently.
With statistics and math.
Shocking.

Yes, they can show statistics based on the past but when it comes to predictions, that is all it is, a prediction and predictions can go either way. Statistics cannot show how a vaccine will affect a person, how it will affect a virus in that person or if that person will be fine without a vaccine or if they will have to go to the hospital. Statistics don't do that. They can help you make an educated guess. That is all. Argue until you are blue in the face but it will not change these facts.

I can predict with 99.99999999% certainty that the earth will rotate around the sun one time every 365.25 days.
Statistics says so.

But since you think it’s all bullshit, would you be willing to bet I’m wrong?
How about a thousand bucks. In escrow. With your attorney.
Deal?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Listen, both of you. I don't care how much the both of you want to prop up statistics. You can show charts and graphs and all that stuff you want. No matter what you do it cannot predict or prove that a vaccine caused or prevented an action.

Yes, they can show statistics based on the past but when it comes to predictions, that is all it is, a prediction and predictions can go either way. Statistics cannot show how a vaccine will affect a person, how it will affect a virus in that person or if that person will be fine without a vaccine or if they will have to go to the hospital. Statistics don't do that. They can help you make an educated guess. That is all. Argue until you are blue in the face but it will not change these facts.

Statistics and probability can't show me if the next flip of the coin will be heads or tails. Statistics can certainly show me that if flip that coin 1000 times the most likely outcome is ~1/2 heads half ~1/2 tails.

Since we're discussing the covid vaccine, I'm not sure what your point is. Neither Rob nor I have ever claimed "the covid vax prevented Joe and Shirley from going to the hospital/dying." We have claimed it reduced your chances of going to the hospital or dying. I'm not sure why you needed clarification on that matter.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Come on jimi77, you and I both know that we take all of that part with a grain of salt . It’s too soon imo to make those kind of assumptions. Sure you can believe in it, you can state your argument about it, but you can’t get mad if no one believes in it. You most certainly can’t say it’s 100% fact either. The only thing we know so far is it’s china’s fault, covid is the longest lasting thing made in china, we know the vaccines made drug companies lots of money and we paid for it, we know it caused an insane amount of mail in voting, and we basically became communist for a little awhile . We also know this crap is over, and even if the future proves the vaccine is no good for you it doesn’t even matter cause you can’t sue anyway .

You and I might take that part with a grain of salt, but I can assure you that is at least one person posting in this thread that is beyond convinced that vax is a bioweapon, different doses and versions were administered, etc, etc, etc.

It is ironic that China (probably/allegedly) made covid which will last forever, but can't make anything else that lasts more than a year or two.

We definitely didn't become communist as wealth was redistributed up the income/wealth ladder.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

It doesn't prevent illness now...

It certainly does just like natural exposure prevents illness. Again just because it isn't 100% effective doesn't mean it never works.