What is?

[djdilliodon!]

All taxes are regressive in nature...

I did the math and a national sales tax, the irs would need to use a 40% rate in order to match what they take in now

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

we already have brackets but even if you made it flat across the board. You only pay taxes on what you make. It wouldn’t be fair to make people pay on what they aren’t making until they sell and realize the profit. Doing a national sales tax like a spokey said I think would work and we do away with federal taxes. Rich, middle, every class buys things on a daily basis and I think that way would be totally fair. I’d do that in a heart beat!

I'd say it way more unfair for people to accumulate massive fortunes and never be taxed because "they didn't sale and take a profit." But like I said for whatever reason there is an extreme resistance in the US to taxing wealthy people. I'm not sure why, but it's abundantly clear that people don't want to tax rich and the tax code reflects that.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

I did the math and a national sales tax, the irs would need to use a 40% rate in order to match what they take in now

Not surprised. IIRC VAT is ~15% in most of Europe, in addition to their income taxes.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

All taxes are regressive in nature...

Agreed, but sales taxes are more regressive than flat or progressive taxes.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I did the math and a national sales tax, the irs would need to use a 40% rate in order to match what they take in now

I lose 35% out of every paycheck as is

 

[djdilliodon!]

I'd say it way more unfair for people to accumulate massive fortunes and never be taxed because "they didn't sale and take a profit." But like I said for whatever reason there is an extreme resistance in the US to taxing wealthy people. I'm not sure why, but it's abundantly clear that people don't want to tax rich and the tax code reflects that.

That goes for everyone not just the rich. The only way the rich benefit is starting a company and making it publicly traded and it does well on the stock market. Rappers and actors for example are paid and are taxed on that money. If someone buys a ton of stock that cash they are using should have already been subjected to taxes.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

You basically have 2 somewhat realistic options do away with deductions and go with a flat tax or do away with income tax and do a national sales tax...either of those ways everyone pays their fair share...

No everyone doesn't pay their "fair share." At least with sales taxes I have feeling Elon Musk would pay some taxes. With a national flat tax Elon accumulates billions and billions of dollars in Tesla stock and never pays taxes on them. Assuming you wouldn't do away with estate/trust planning, then Elon will pass along all those billions to his children also untaxed.

I think the issue here is "you guys" for some reason don't see the accumulation of wealth as "income." If it isn't income then how did Elon come to be worth over $200 billion?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

No everyone doesn't pay their "fair share." At least with sales taxes I have feeling Elon Musk would pay some taxes. With a national flat tax Elon accumulates billions and billions of dollars in Tesla stock and never pays taxes on them. Assuming you wouldn't do away with estate/trust planning, then Elon will pass along all those billions to his children also untaxed.

I think the issue here is "you guys" for some reason don't see the accumulation of wealth as "income." If it isn't income then how did Elon come to be worth over $200 billion?

Get the budget audited and I'd bet we'd less taxation

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Hell I'd fully support the expense of an audit on federal expenditures

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

That goes for everyone not just the rich. The only way the rich benefit is starting a company and making it publicly traded and it does well on the stock market. Rappers and actors for example are paid and are taxed on that money. If someone buys a ton of stock that cash they are using should have already been subjected to taxes.

The company doesn't have to be publicly traded. Plenty cap investment firms doing fine with privately held companies. Rappers, actors, athletes all pay taxes on their income, but Jerry Jones for example, is gaining billions in wealth as the Cowboy franchise continues to increase in value, but doesn't have to pay a dime on it. And then he'll put the Cowboys in a trust and pass it along to his children who won't have to pay a dime on it. It's good to be billionaire.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

The company doesn't have to be publicly traded. Plenty cap investment firms doing fine with privately held companies. Rappers, actors, athletes all pay taxes on their income, but Jerry Jones for example, is gaining billions in wealth as the Cowboy franchise continues to increase in value, but doesn't have to pay a dime on it. And then he'll put the Cowboys in a trust and pass it along to his children who won't have to pay a dime on it. It's good to be billionaire.

It really seems more like you have a serious dislike for successful people...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

I lose 35% out of every paycheck as is

Wouldn't it be nice if Elon, Bezos, etc took that same hit? Furthermore, your employer is paying ~8% to match your FICA and Medicare taxes, which (theoretically) could be going into your pocket - a hidden tax.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Wouldn't it be nice if Elon, Bezos, etc took that same hit? Furthermore, your employer is paying ~8% to match your FICA and Medicare taxes, which (theoretically) could be going into your pocket - a hidden tax.

I'd rather not pay into Medicare/social security...I'd get a better roi on a private retirement plan...plus the govt retirement is the only plan that you can't leave the balance to your children...if I don't claim it that money is lost...

 

[djdilliodon!]

The company doesn't have to be publicly traded. Plenty cap investment firms doing fine with privately held companies. Rappers, actors, athletes all pay taxes on their income, but Jerry Jones for example, is gaining billions in wealth as the Cowboy franchise continues to increase in value, but doesn't have to pay a dime on it. And then he'll put the Cowboys in a trust and pass it along to his children who won't have to pay a dime on it. It's good to be billionaire.

If they inherit it and decide to sell it, they should pay tax. If they profit while owning it (not the value but actual profits), they should pay tax on that too.

 

[Eggs 5,000+ posts]

I'm Colorado, and house prices are crazy - median house price in the Denver Metro area is ~$500k. When were in Houston it was astonishing how much cheaper nicer homes in nicer neighborhoods were.

Where I live median price $1.2 million built in 1962 and according to 2019 if your making less than $62k your low income