What is optimal vs what is necessary

[Sub Bass Woofrz 10+ year member]

I've been reading around this forum for quite a while. I've noticed a recurring theme of people recommending a lot of upgrades that i dont really see as necessary when it comes to electrical. Including upgrading alternators and adding batteries. While i understand it cannot hurt to upgrade these things im also skeptical about how necessary it is and how much good it will do at certain power levels.

I heard a guys system who had a DD 2k amp plus a component amp on 4 DD 1500 series 15s. He claimed he had a stock 60 amp alternator and the system seemed to be working fine... Why the hell would i ever upgrade my alternator for 1500w of power when he 2500 watts on a 60 amp alt...

I guess what im wondering at what point does it absolutely become necessary to upgrade the stock alternator on a car, rather than just upgrade it because it was recommended.

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[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

You obviously haven't been reading around enough.

 

[Flex68 10+ year member]

I've been reading around this forum for quite a while. I've noticed a recurring theme of people recommending a lot of upgrades that i dont really see as necessary when it comes to electrical. Including upgrading alternators and adding batteries.

As long as you don't think it's necessary, then!

BTW, when are u gonna publish ur research on supercooling and lossless conductivity, perpetual motion, and car audio that doesn't succumb to the physics and mathematical laws the rest of the universe do?

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

What you do is keep adding more power to a stock electrical system until you blow up the power supply in your amp, or start smoking woofers because you're prematurely clipping your output. Then you'll know that you needed stronger electrical.

 

[Sub Bass Woofrz 10+ year member]

So regardless of my power output, 200w or 2000w i should upgrade my alternator due to super cooling and lossless conductivity? Exactly the answer i was looking for thanks

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

So regardless of my power output, 200w or 2000w i should upgrade my alternator due to super cooling and lossless conductivity? Exactly the answer i was looking for thanks

Are you unfamiliar with how amplifiers work? Amperage and voltage and what not? Do you think that they produce power out of thin air? No. It takes power to make power. Specifically, amperage * voltage = wattage.

Let's say your alt is 60A. At max charging voltage of 14.4v, that's a maximum possible output of 864w. That's at 100% efficiency. And not including the amperage your car uses to, you know... run.

You'll get amperage from your battery. But now that's 12v. And depending on what you have underhood, that might not be very much amperage at all.

People don't recommend electrical upgrades because they're cool. Personally, I don't think a HO alt is necessary until you get over 3k, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. 3k daily can burn up a stock alt in a hurry depending on your listening habits.

The very first, and most important electrical upgrade IMO, is a dash mounted voltmeter. If you don't think upgrades are necessary, don't do them. Then watch that voltmeter get into single digits and enjoy the smoke show from your amp.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

I've been reading around this forum for quite a while. I've noticed a recurring theme of people recommending a lot of upgrades that i dont really see as necessary when it comes to electrical. Including upgrading alternators and adding batteries. While i understand it cannot hurt to upgrade these things im also skeptical about how necessary it is and how much good it will do at certain power levels.
I heard a guys system who had a DD 2k amp plus a component amp on 4 DD 1500 series 15s. He claimed he had a stock 60 amp alternator and the system seemed to be working fine... Why the hell would i ever upgrade my alternator for 1500w of power when he 2500 watts on a 60 amp alt...

I guess what im wondering at what point does it absolutely become necessary to upgrade the stock alternator on a car, rather than just upgrade it because it was recommended.

lol... here's one..if your headlights dim at night when the bass hits, you know you need upgrades....I am with Taylorfade..get a digital volt meter and if your voltage drops below 13, upgrade til it won't.

 

[MECHMAN 10+ year member]

I've been reading around this forum for quite a while. I've noticed a recurring theme of people recommending a lot of upgrades that i dont really see as necessary when it comes to electrical. Including upgrading alternators and adding batteries. While i understand it cannot hurt to upgrade these things im also skeptical about how necessary it is and how much good it will do at certain power levels.
I heard a guys system who had a DD 2k amp plus a component amp on 4 DD 1500 series 15s. He claimed he had a stock 60 amp alternator and the system seemed to be working fine... Why the hell would i ever upgrade my alternator for 1500w of power when he 2500 watts on a 60 amp alt...

I guess what im wondering at what point does it absolutely become necessary to upgrade the stock alternator on a car, rather than just upgrade it because it was recommended.

The key factor here that nobody addresses is TIME.

If you have good battery researve, you can run a 30,000 watt groundpounder with NO alternator whatsoever, I know people that do it. The only thing is, 1) they run 16 volt batteries so that even after voltage drop they are in a good voltage range, and 2) they can only demo for a few minutes before putting it back on the battery charger.

Your friend with the 2KWRMS system running off of a 60 amp alternator is not going to be able to do that for more than a couple minutes before the voltage starts to drop SEVERELY. As it was, I bet he was at or below battery voltage (12.8 volts) and was not getting nearly the power out of the amplifier that he could.

The simple mathematics that were posted earlier are true. Amplifier power has to have current to back it up. You can take it out of the batteries for a little while, but the voltage will be low, and eventually you could hurt the amp.

I've run 5KWRMS off of a single MechMan 270 amp alternator and (2) D1400 batteries and not dropped below 15.0 volts, BUT I would only ever demo the system for 5 minutes at a time to keep from burning up the voice coil. All factors need to be considered when engineering a charging system to supply your audio system and your listening habits.

 

[Dtrom 10+ year member]

Your friend wasn't getting 2500W off a 60A alt. just sayin.

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

The key factor here that nobody addresses is TIME.
If you have good battery researve, you can run a 30,000 watt groundpounder with NO alternator whatsoever, I know people that do it. The only thing is, 1) they run 16 volt batteries so that even after voltage drop they are in a good voltage range, and 2) they can only demo for a few minutes before putting it back on the battery charger.

Your friend with the 2KWRMS system running off of a 60 amp alternator is not going to be able to do that for more than a couple minutes before the voltage starts to drop SEVERELY. As it was, I bet he was at or below battery voltage (12.8 volts) and was not getting nearly the power out of the amplifier that he could.

The simple mathematics that were posted earlier are true. Amplifier power has to have current to back it up. You can take it out of the batteries for a little while, but the voltage will be low, and eventually you could hurt the amp.

I've run 5KWRMS off of a single MechMan 270 amp alternator and (2) D1400 batteries and not dropped below 15.0 volts, BUT I would only ever demo the system for 5 minutes at a time to keep from burning up the voice coil. All factors need to be considered when engineering a charging system to supply your audio system and your listening habits.

There are many points here that I have been trying to press every now and then but the flooded market of UPS batteries makes it hard to get the point across when several unaware people chime in with minimal experience or knowledge.

To go along with what Mechman is saying, the other issues of course is that most do not just play their systems for short periods. Most here will abuse the system to with an inch of it's life or worse.

Just remember, money spent on your electrical is actually saving money in the end.

 

[Sub Bass Woofrz 10+ year member]

Are you unfamiliar with how amplifiers work? Amperage and voltage and what not? Do you think that they produce power out of thin air? No. It takes power to make power. Specifically, amperage * voltage = wattage.
Let's say your alt is 60A. At max charging voltage of 14.4v, that's a maximum possible output of 864w. That's at 100% efficiency. And not including the amperage your car uses to, you know... run.

You'll get amperage from your battery. But now that's 12v. And depending on what you have underhood, that might not be very much amperage at all.

People don't recommend electrical upgrades because they're cool. Personally, I don't think a HO alt is necessary until you get over 3k, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. 3k daily can burn up a stock alt in a hurry depending on your listening habits.

The very first, and most important electrical upgrade IMO, is a dash mounted voltmeter. If you don't think upgrades are necessary, don't do them. Then watch that voltmeter get into single digits and enjoy the smoke show from your amp.

Alright, one more thing though, just beause a 60 amp alternator can only put out 840 watts of power that doesn't mean the amp is constantly consuming its max rms, therefore the alternator constantly charges the battery while the amp is not running at max power, building up enough power in the battery/batteries for when the amp does need it?

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

lol... here's one..if your headlights dim at night when the bass hits, you know you need upgrades....I am with Taylorfade..get a digital volt meter and if your voltage drops below 13, upgrade til it won't.

I usually try to stay above 12.5v-12.8v. If voltage doesn't go below that on any given day, then there's no need to upgrade electrical. This is when the optimal vs necessary comes into play.

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

Are you unfamiliar with how amplifiers work? Amperage and voltage and what not? Do you think that they produce power out of thin air? No. It takes power to make power. Specifically, amperage * voltage = wattage.
Let's say your alt is 60A. At max charging voltage of 14.4v, that's a maximum possible output of 864w. That's at 100% efficiency. And not including the amperage your car uses to, you know... run.

You'll get amperage from your battery. But now that's 12v. And depending on what you have underhood, that might not be very much amperage at all.

People don't recommend electrical upgrades because they're cool. Personally, I don't think a HO alt is necessary until you get over 3k, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. 3k daily can burn up a stock alt in a hurry depending on your listening habits.

The very first, and most important electrical upgrade IMO, is a dash mounted voltmeter. If you don't think upgrades are necessary, don't do them. Then watch that voltmeter get into single digits and enjoy the smoke show from your amp.

The key factor here that nobody addresses is TIME.
If you have good battery researve, you can run a 30,000 watt groundpounder with NO alternator whatsoever, I know people that do it. The only thing is, 1) they run 16 volt batteries so that even after voltage drop they are in a good voltage range, and 2) they can only demo for a few minutes before putting it back on the battery charger.

Your friend with the 2KWRMS system running off of a 60 amp alternator is not going to be able to do that for more than a couple minutes before the voltage starts to drop SEVERELY. As it was, I bet he was at or below battery voltage (12.8 volts) and was not getting nearly the power out of the amplifier that he could.

The simple mathematics that were posted earlier are true. Amplifier power has to have current to back it up. You can take it out of the batteries for a little while, but the voltage will be low, and eventually you could hurt the amp.

I've run 5KWRMS off of a single MechMan 270 amp alternator and (2) D1400 batteries and not dropped below 15.0 volts, BUT I would only ever demo the system for 5 minutes at a time to keep from burning up the voice coil. All factors need to be considered when engineering a charging system to supply your audio system and your listening habits.

There are many points here that I have been trying to press every now and then but the flooded market of UPS batteries makes it hard to get the point across when several unaware people chime in with minimal experience or knowledge.

To go along with what Mechman is saying, the other issues of course is that most do not just play their systems for short periods. Most here will abuse the system to with an inch of it's life or worse.

Just remember, money spent on your electrical is actually saving money in the end.

X2, good info from experienced ppl.

 

[Villeza1 10+ year member]

[quote name='Sub Bass Woofrz']Alright, one more thing though, just beause a 60 amp alternator can only put out 840 watts of power that doesn't mean the amp is constantly consuming its max rms, therefore the alternator constantly charges the battery while the amp is not running at max power, building up enough power in the battery/batteries for when the amp does need it?[/QUOTE]

@TalorFade
@MECHMAN
@pro\-rabbit

 

[Sub Bass Woofrz 10+ year member]

Now im not saying it can support an endless amount of power, certainly not 5k watt rms but definately more than the calculated 840 watt output of the 60 amp alt