Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc.

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

was this thread serious to begin with //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

semi. like a chubby.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I think the pictures James posted spoke volumes...Shakira is hot

 

[joms 10+ year member]

I found 3.

like i said.... useless.

@ngsm - i'm using W505 with H701

 

[joms 10+ year member]

I found this from another forum site which only had 2 pages of thread. Seemed to give me a lot more info than the 19 threads here. Don't get me wrong, i'm not here to bash or flame. Just some constructive criticism.

Anyway this is what was posted. Kindly post your comments if this is the right thing to do:

1. The first thing to determine is the distance from the listener to each driver. This can be done with a measuring tape from the cone to the listener’s nose.2. The next step is to make the path length to each driver on the left channel the same. As an example, if the tweeter measures 80cm, the midrange measures 90cm and the bass driver measures 100cm, then we add 20cm of delay to the tweeter, 10cm of delay to the midrange and zero delay to the bass driver. This would mean that you would hear all of the drivers at 100cm from the listening position. Let’s call this the “left channel”. From here on, if you add or remove delay from the “left Channel”, the value of delay must be added/reduced to every driver in the channel equally.

3. Do the same with the right channel, completely ignoring getting a center for the moment. For example, if we measured the tweeter at 110cm, the midrange at 120cm and the woofer at 130cm, then we would add 20cm delay to the tweeter, 10cm delay to the midrange and zero delay to the woofer. This would mean that the listener would hear all of the drivers in the right channel at 130cm from the listening position We will call this the “right channel”

4. Now we move the “left Channel” away from the listener by adding time delay until both channels are the same distance away from the listener. To continue with our example, the “left channel” was adjusted to be 100cm away from the listener and the “right channel” was 130 cm away from the listener. We will now delay the “left channel” by 30cm so that the listener will hear the “left channel” and the “right channel” at 130cm away.

5. You should have a clear center now. It may be slightly off center to the left or the right, but it should be clear and fairly focused. In order to move the center, add or remove delay from the “Left channel”

6. The next order of business is to add delay to both the “left channel” and the “right channel” equally until they are the same distance from the listener as the sub. If we return to our example, the front stage (both Left and Right channel) is 130 cm away from the listener. If we measured the distance to the sub and found that it was 200cm then we would add 70cm delay to both “left channel” and “right channel” equally. I found that this delay needed to be exceeded in order to get the bass nicely upfront beyond the windscreen. This is also an area of serious tweaking and experimentation till the desired effect is reached.

7. Now that the front stage is centered and the sub bass integrating nicely, you will have to experiment with mid range phase (both in, or both out of phase) and probably tweeter phase. I found that reversing the polarity of the mids improved the stage depth. I have also found that reversing the polarity of only one tweeter helped to improve the equality of the stage depth since the stage may appear deeper on the left or the right. You may also have to make adjustments to the volume per driver (you did say you were running active), especially the mids and tweeters. Also the bass on the listeners side in my car had to be EQ’d because of the extreme off axis angle and the volume reduced because of the loading gain in the footwell area (mine is pretty deep).

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

like i said.... useless.


@ngsm - i'm using W505 with H701

If you can't find good info on T/A in this thread, then you're blind or can't understand things that are out of context.

I even added pictures just in case people can't read.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

like i said.... useless.


@ngsm - i'm using W505 with H701

Great, so now you're just contributing more useless posts. Fantastic.

Like James said, no spoon for you. Use what you can and ignore the rest. No one is making you read anything.

This is one of the best, most insightful threads on this forum in recent history. If you can't appreciate it, then don't read it.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

I'm bored.

say you have this lame center image that's right in front of you:

Using the theory that delaying the speakers will make them seem like they are further, maybe you can get the center image in the center of the soundstage by delaying the left side more... since delaying it more would make it seem like it's further and since it should be further the right side should seem more prominent relative to the left and therefore shifting the image to the right.

But the left speakers are not physically further, so sometimes you would have to compensate for that by attenuating the left side.

Friday the 13th. This horrifying day will be followed with love in the air tomorrow. That's where T/A will really be implemented.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

kayatay

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

kayatay

sorry, I dont' speak curry //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

let me try to draw attn

subwoofer!?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Shakira's woofers?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Shakira's woofers?

so yeah...

I have a feeling forum is full of stupid shits that doesn't know about T/A.

correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

most cars I have heard (except for a handful) who had time alignment imaged FAR worse than my first big system car with no time alignment in the early 90's....Even back in the day when guys were using ODR I can only really recall about 5 or 6 who seemed to really use it correctly. There was a red 96 camaro that ran ODR, orion amps, ID horns IN the dash firing off the windsheild and a really trick install but it still bunched up. Best way to go about it though is position it then fine tune..seen and heard many cars that they through in speakers in easy locations then try using time alignment.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

position/aiming, individual channel level adjustments, individual channel L/R EQ = good imaging

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

if it cant at least image like my crappy art work = junk imo. You can achieve that without T/A:laugh: Did it for years