Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc.

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

I wasn't there at the original recording and have no clue what it's *supposed* to sound like. Maybe what's on the CD isn't even what the band wanted in the fist place. Therefore, what's accurate to me has to be based on personal preference and I wouldn't know authentic from artificial if it came up and punched me in the nads.

I agree whole heartedly.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

I use to question that myself. When I listen to a Dire Strait song my car is pretty linear, to my ears atleast. But as soon as I pop in a Young Jeezy cd or a Three 6 cd, all the EQs are boosted on the lower and tip top end from the recording itself. So car sounds different. It feels like an uphill battle when I get those CDs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

Maybe because the Dire Straits recording is, in fact, clipped? I've scanned some and they are. So, you cannot hear it "dirty" when it's loud, take it out and put in something that's a lot louder and it all goes to hell. All boils down to "perception of clean" and, as research has shown, we're terrible at determining that.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

Dire Strait was just an example. I have experienced it with other CDs too.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Why must the fun happen when I'm in traffic now..

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Boundaries might be a confined term i choose but saying everything can go on infinitely within a car would be nuts....you can make a car not sound like a car but i highly doubt anyone can make a 20-20k sound as if it were 15 feet outside ones interior pillars too.. Biggest besteststsss cars I have ever heard did not IMO achieve that. They sounded much bigger than the vehicles they were in but they also did not sound "infinite"

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Well, you guys are getting a little of track.

Too bad T/A doesn't mean thread alignment.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Boundaries might be a confined term i choose but saying everything can go on infinitely within a car would be nuts....you can make a car not sound like a car but i highly doubt anyone can make a 20-20k sound as if it were 15 feet outside ones interior pillars too.. Biggest besteststsss cars I have ever heard did not IMO achieve that. They sounded much bigger than the vehicles they were in but they also did not sound "infinite"

I think that's a very good point. You can take the sound out of a car, but you can't take the car out of the sound. The space determines the end result.

Here in town we have the quietest place in the world...Orfield Lab's anechoic chamber...something like -7 dB. The only sound that exists in the room is you...your heart beating, digestion, breathing etc. I guess no one can stand to be in it more than 30 minutes as they go crazy.

So, maybe what T/A is really doing is delaying reflection in a way that allows us to hear the illusion in a different way? Maybe it's delaying the perception of the actual physical boundaries just enough to trick our ears into thinking the speakers moved?

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Boundaries might be a confined term i choose but saying everything can go on infinitely within a car would be nuts....you can make a car not sound like a car but i highly doubt anyone can make a 20-20k sound as if it were 15 feet outside ones interior pillars too.. Biggest besteststsss cars I have ever heard did not IMO achieve that. They sounded much bigger than the vehicles they were in but they also did not sound "infinite"

I dont think anyone is arguing that. There is definitely much better/easier places to reproduce pleasing or accurate sound than in a vehicle but it still does not hurt to point out.

So, maybe what T/A is really doing is delaying reflection in a way that allows us to hear the illusion in a different way? Maybe it's delaying the perception of the actual physical boundaries just enough to trick our ears into thinking the speakers moved?

That is more or less the whole idea behind t/a. Ears/brain are rather easily tricked into perceiving something that may, on the whole, not be scientifically accurate.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Yes, and I thought that was sort of the conceding argument in it. Guess I was thinking about something else.

Nah.

The conceding argument was that it is an illusion.

Anyway, I have heard some odd things seem to originate from beyond the boundaries but I don't know if it actually was or it was all in my head. Either way though, I suppose if I do hear it...then the trick worked so....

Technically, it is all in your head //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Technically, it is all in your head //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Which brings up a good question: what does ITD and T/A have in common if it's primary area of concern is in the sub 1k or so range?

Why does T/A make a difference up top where we're more sensitive to changes in intensity than time?

FWIW, I don't really use T/A on my tweeters like I use to. I level match as close as possible and then use L/R EQ'ing to "move" the image where I want it (midway between the pillars in the center of the car.)

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

I think I should have involved subwoofers to get more replies on what people think about T/A.
I wonder if people know that subwoofers can also be delayed. I wonder what's the purpose of having the capability of delaying subwoofers.

I used TA on my subs and now for some strange reason the bass comes from the front like the rest of the sound //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif Must have screwed up something //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

I used TA on my subs and now for some strange reason the bass comes from the front like the rest of the sound //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif Must have screwed up something //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

No, that's what we at TEAM Front Fill call "Extreme SQ"! Good job! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif:veryhapp: Feel free to join if you'd like. We're always looking for new practitioners. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif:veryhapp://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif (things that blink r fun)//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif:veryhapp:

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Well, I wish I had independent L/R level adjustment for just my tweeters...

When I measure the outputs of my tweeter amplifier at a given volume, the Left channel puts out more voltage than the right channel....

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

nG

 

[Etac 10+ year member]

Well, I wish I had independent L/R level adjustment for just my tweeters...
When I measure the outputs of my tweeter amplifier at a given volume, the Left channel puts out more voltage than the right channel....

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

nG

well it might not be the best solution but

if the tweeter thats making less power, is making enough.. then why not just wire in a resistor with the one thats making too much to tame it a little?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Well, I wish I had independent L/R level adjustment for just my tweeters...
When I measure the outputs of my tweeter amplifier at a given volume, the Left channel puts out more voltage than the right channel....

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

nG

Easy, just swap the inputs and the outputs. *usually the left tweets needs to be attenuated a little relative to the right tweet since the left is usually closer to you.