The SQeer Thread

[thch 10+ year member]

oh, thats a releif. at first i though this was a thread bashing SQ. add the u after the Q and well...

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

Angled toward the center of the car, or the driver?

Personally I like center. Others I know like driver. I strongly suggest you try both and see which you like better.

 

[Alpineinstaller 10+ year member]

if you do it towards the driver it will sound great....to you. Your passengers on the other hand will get the short end of the stick.

 

[XtrmAudioCncpts 10+ year member]

Personally I like center. Others I know like driver. I strongly suggest you try both and see which you like better.

i too like it to sound like its coming from the middle of the car. but its hard to get right and sometimes it sounds funny since you are sitting at a funny angle in a car to where the speakers are located its far from ideal

 

[Ayrton 10+ year member]

Your passengers on the other hand will get the short end of the stick.

Passengers?

What are those?

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

i too like it to sound like its coming from the middle of the car. but its hard to get right and sometimes it sounds funny since you are sitting at a funny angle in a car to where the speakers are located its far from ideal

Not with time allignment //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[XtrmAudioCncpts 10+ year member]

Not with time allignment //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

thats why i need a new HU mine doesnt do timing allignment

 

[Fate710 10+ year member]

what exactly is time alignment. I'm wanting something that will play rock and country very very well. My stock location in the door will take a 5.25 or 6.5 and I bought 6.5 POLK MOMO MMC650. Im ampin them with a Kicker 652xi amp. I'm just wondering if I will need to do anything else for the front.

Also on my sub. I am purchasing a 12" IDMAXD4. Should I port it or seal it. I'm wanting the most sound quality possible with a little boom. This is an offroad truck but I like my tunes.

Also. Before I install the POLKs should I sell them and buy comps? I have no idea how to setup crossovers right or anything so I figured just to stick with the coaxs. Any thoughts?

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

thats why i need a new HU mine doesnt do timing allignment

You could just buy a processor and get TA....could save you some money. If you are interested I know someone who has a AltoMobile Sub-16 Digital Sub EQ processor. 9.9ms delay/channel, 64 presets 8 settings with 8 variables for each.

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

what exactly is time alignment. I'm wanting something that will play rock and country very very well. My stock location in the door will take a 5.25 or 6.5 and I bought 6.5 POLK MOMO MMC650. Im ampin them with a Kicker 652xi amp. I'm just wondering if I will need to do anything else for the front.
Also on my sub. I am purchasing a 12" IDMAXD4. Should I port it or seal it. I'm wanting the most sound quality possible with a little boom. This is an offroad truck but I like my tunes.

Also. Before I install the POLKs should I sell them and buy comps? I have no idea how to setup crossovers right or anything so I figured just to stick with the coaxs. Any thoughts?

Time allignment actually delays the speakers closest to you so that you hear all the speakers in the car at the exact same time. This makes for a better sound stage.

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

When i switched from a cd player without time alignment to one with time alignment, that made the bigest difference in the world, it sounds alot better.

 

[Fate710 10+ year member]

how exactly is that accomplished? how do you set something like that up? Does my HU have that feature or do I have to buy a seperate EQ?

 

[Ayrton 10+ year member]

This is what I have to work with...

Alpine 9855

Alpine SBS-05DC Center channel

Alpine SRP-17LP “Type R” Coaxial

Alpine SPR-17LS “Type R” Components

Alpine MRD-M300 mono amp

Alpine MRA-D550 Theater amp

JL Audio “10W0-4” in a small sealed JL box

I have all of this waiting to install when time permits, so throw some suggestions at me with what will make the SQ better.

 

[skeptikal Premium Member]

This is what I have to work with...
Alpine 9855

Alpine SBS-05DC Center channel

Alpine SRP-17LP “Type R” Coaxial

Alpine SPR-17LS “Type R” Components

Alpine MRD-M300 mono amp

Alpine MRA-D550 Theater amp

JL Audio “10W0-4” in a small sealed JL box

I have all of this waiting to install when time permits, so throw some suggestions at me with what will make the SQ better.

get a different sub. IMO the w0 doesn't sound all that great.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I would like to raise my mid-bass sound stage. It there a way to raise up the soundstage without fabricating a new mounting location. My speakers are off axis in my doors, my only thoughts would be to try and get them closer on axis. Any help would be appriciated.

Per Mark Eldridge (you may have heard of him before... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ):

The real skivvy is that you want to minimize the differences, for a lot of reasons. Especially in the mid-bass through the midrange regions, the difference between left and right pathlengths is CRITICAL! In fact, between 100 and 400 Hz, the angle of the speaker won't even matter, as imaging cues are almost 100% determined by path length, not by intensity differences. Above 2000 Hz, imaging cues can be controlled by speaker angle and other intensity controlling techniques. Path lengths above 2000 Hz are not critical.

The post in it's entirety:

Actually, I'd recommend looking for past threads on the topic, in addition to what we discuss here. There have been a lot of threads on this subject in the last year or two, and you can find them in the archives and just by searching for threads on path lengths, imaging, staging, etc. Also, buy a copy of the Autosound 2000 Tech Briefs, and read tha articles in that collection. Between those two sources, you'll have more information than you can probably find form all other sources combined.
The real skivvy is that you want to minimize the differences, for a lot of reasons. Especially in the mid-bass through the midrange regions, the difference between left and right pathlengths is CRITICAL! In fact, between 100 and 400 Hz, the angle of the speaker won't even matter, as imaging cues are almost 100% determined by path length, not by intensity differences. Above 2000 Hz, imaging cues can be controlled by speaker angle and other intensity controlling techniques. Path lengths above 2000 Hz are not critical.

As far as the path length differences between the mid-bass driver, midrange, adn tweeter on a single side, you'll probably never get them exactly the same. The real problems with path length differences here will be int eh frequency and phase response in the crossover range. Signal alignment can help some here, as long as the speakers aren't too far from each other. It's more acceptable to have a mid-bass amd midrange separated than to separate the mid and tweeter. The mid-bass frequency range can make a difference in the perceived stage depth,a dn the center image stability. But, the upper midrange and high frequencies are responsible for the stage height, width, and depth, as well as image focus. Keeping these frequency range drivers close together will be a lot easier to control all the variables than separating them. If you need additional stage height because the mid and tweeter are in the kick panel area, then add a second set of tweeters high and wide, and crossed over pretty high as well (somewhere between 8000 and 20000 Hz). This configuration is what has been used in most all fo the best sounding cars that use conventional drivers. And in most of the HLCD systems, the additional tweeters are used for the same reason.

Anyway, locate the midrange drivers first, and work with them in their intended frequency range to achieve the best overall stage depth and center image. Don't worry too much about stage height or width yet.

Next, locat the mid-bass drivers so they blend well with the mids, have solid output, and do not detract from the center image. Doors will likely not be the best place for them. They can be mounted under the dash, in the floor, in the firewall towards the center of the car from the kick panel, or where ever else they work, adn can have a large enough enclosure.

The tweeters are the easiest. Mount them as close to the mids as possible, and make sure they give you the width and height you want, and help to focus the image performance. If you need the additional height, add the second set of tweeters.

Path lengths are a different animal. They're kind of like the impedance of a woofer. Industry wide, we call a speaker a "4 ohm" or "2 ohm" speaker, when in reality, it is only really that impedance at one or maybe two frequencies. That's the "nominal" impedance which means "in name only." The actual impedance varies widely accoring to frequency. A "4 ohm" speaker in a box may have impedances as high as 50 ohms at resonance, and as low as 3 ohms elsewhere.

Likewise, the sonic cues that affect what we percieve as staging and imaging are frequency dependent, and there is no one single number, technique, or what ever that can be used across the frequency board.

Good luck!

Thread: http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001232