The infamous W7

[T9X 10+ year member]

Stop the hate, we all know the Xplod is the sub sent to earth from GOD to own the SQ crown for all times!

This may be true but Funky Pups will walk all over them in terms of SPL. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

This may be true but Funky Pups will walk all over them in terms of SPL. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

Funky Pups were Satan's counter attack to the Xplod's ...... the battle rages on!

 

[jujumantb 10+ year member]

That's the totally false.
All of the subs mentioned (W7, Brahma, IDmax, etc) are some of the lowest distortion subs on the market. No agruing that; it's fact. 2nd, you are correct; all of them are capable of high output levels. But, that doesn't mean you need to use all of that excursion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Having a high Xmax does more for you than simply acheiving high output.....a high Xmax sub will allow you to use very little of the sub's linear excursion capabilities to obtain a proper level-matching output. Simple comparison; two subs, one with 13mm Xmax and one with 33mm Xmax. Now, excurt them both to 10mm. Which will have less distortion?? The 33mm Xmax sub.

So, please show me again how these "supersubs" are not sound quality subs??

Zero distortion doesnt make a sub sound good. We are talking about sub-bass frequencies here, do you know hard it is to hear ANY distortion in this area? EXTREMELY HARD! That arguement can be dropped right now, very irrelevant //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif A pure SQ sub DOES NOT have "balls", simple as that, it is designed for very pleasing sound playing flat at (in comparison to what most of you guys are used to) low volumes. A supersub is designed for high SPL levels with decent sound at those levels. Will they be "accurate" at low levels? Well, yeah. Are they designed specifically to be the most pleasing at this volume, no. Thats why they are not SQ subs, but SQL. Could you use supersubs in SQ setups? Sure, why not. Again, there is WAY too much arguing over subwoofers' "SQ". The sub is the last and least important part of an SQ setup relatively speaking. In this distorted world of car audio to basshead children, the subwoofer is the MOST important part of the system. My post was my way to make fun of this fact, while at the same time making fun of $1000 "pure SQ" subs. A JL W7 is NOT an SQ sub, no SQ sub would have 30-whatever mm of excursion, simple as that. Hey look at my kid's new power wheels car I bought him, its 250 horsepower. Hint, that is not a children's toy.

 

[Echo42987 10+ year member]

So your saying that a W7 isn't a SQ sub because of it's excusion? I tend to disagree...We all know that a w7 will never compare to a L7, which I currently own. The W7 will probably even get louder and sound 30 times better. In my opinion from the w7 setups at high volumes they could handle what was thrown to them. My kickers keep up with Double bass alright...I brought the same cd to tweeter to hear the w7 with my OWN ears...and I'm sorry it kept up 3 times better and it sounded clean etc. Now your telling me that isn't an SQL sub? I don't know where you got that information from but in my opinion the W7 is a pure SQL sub with intense SP levels.

 

[bonesninja 5,000+ posts]

Zero distortion doesnt make a sub sound good. We are talking about sub-bass frequencies here, do you know hard it is to hear ANY distortion in this area? EXTREMELY HARD! That arguement can be dropped right now, very irrelevant //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif A pure SQ sub DOES NOT have "balls", simple as that, it is designed for very pleasing sound playing flat at (in comparison to what most of you guys are used to) low volumes. A supersub is designed for high SPL levels with decent sound at those levels. Will they be "accurate" at low levels? Well, yeah. Are they designed specifically to be the most pleasing at this volume, no. Thats why they are not SQ subs, but SQL. Could you use supersubs in SQ setups? Sure, why not. Again, there is WAY too much arguing over subwoofers' "SQ". The sub is the last and least important part of an SQ setup relatively speaking. In this distorted world of car audio to basshead children, the subwoofer is the MOST important part of the system. My post was my way to make fun of this fact, while at the same time making fun of $1000 "pure SQ" subs. A JL W7 is NOT an SQ sub, no SQ sub would have 30-whatever mm of excursion, simple as that. Hey look at my kid's new power wheels car I bought him, its 250 horsepower. Hint, that is not a children's toy.

thanx for the jokes..........W7=sq,sql or spl if you so desire.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Zero distortion doesnt make a sub sound good. We are talking about sub-bass frequencies here, do you know hard it is to hear ANY distortion in this area? EXTREMELY HARD! That arguement can be dropped right now, very irrelevant //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

LOL....hardly irrelevant. We aren't talking about personal preference or audibility, but accurate sound reproduction. In that, distortion is 100% relevant. That's not even a discussion. So yes, a low distortion sub is absolutely a sound quality sub. There are no two ways about it, and no personal preference about it. Low distortion = high sound quality.

A pure SQ sub DOES NOT have "balls", simple as that, it is designed for very pleasing sound playing flat at (in comparison to what most of you guys are used to) low volumes.

And the W7 (and any other "supersub") is absolutely capable of that. Just because it isn't limited to solely being a sound quality sub, doesn't mean it isn't a sound quality sub //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

A supersub is designed for high SPL levels with decent sound at those levels.

Again, it's all in the end use. Can a supersub get loud if you want? Sure. And it'll have more accurate sound reproduction than any other sub on the market at those levels. Can it be used in a pure sound quality install with even better results? Absolutely.

Will they be "accurate" at low levels? Well, yeah. Are they designed specifically to be the most pleasing at this volume, no. Thats why they are not SQ subs, but SQL.

Again, read what I wrote about Xmax and how it affects a sub's linearity. There is NO QUESTION that a "supersub" will be more linear than what you consider to be a "sound quality sub" simply because it will be using less of it's capable linear excursion compared to the lower excursion sub. Again, this isn't a debate or a discussion, it's a fact. Again, low distortion = high sound quality (most accurate reproduction of the music.

So yes, they will absolutely be pleasing at low levels when set up properly.

A JL W7 is NOT an SQ sub,

Again, you are absolutely wrong. It is most certainly a sound quality sub.

no SQ sub would have 30-whatever mm of excursion, simple as that.

Again, go read what I wrote about excursion. You are absolutely misinterpreting long excursion as it's only use. IT'S NOT. Again, take two subs; one with 13mm Xmax and one with 33mm Xmax. Now, play them both to 10mm Xmax. Which will have the lowest distortion, and hence the best sound quality? Again, the high excursion sub. Why? Because it is using less of it's capable excursion, and as excursion increases so does distortion. Not a debate; a fact.

So, again, prove to me how a "supersub" is not a sound quality sub.

The problem here isn't other peoples perception......it's yours //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Most of these "supersubs" are the most accurate subs on the market. Yet, in your perception, that still doesn't make them a "sound quality" sub //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

 

[jujumantb 10+ year member]

So your saying that a W7 isn't a SQ sub because of it's excusion? I tend to disagree...We all know that a w7 will never compare to a L7, which I currently own. The W7 will probably even get louder and sound 30 times better. In my opinion from the w7 setups at high volumes they could handle what was thrown to them. My kickers keep up with Double bass alright...I brought the same cd to tweeter to hear the w7 with my OWN ears...and I'm sorry it kept up 3 times better and it sounded clean etc. Now your telling me that isn't an SQL sub? I don't know where you got that information from but in my opinion the W7 is a pure SQL sub with intense SP levels.

If you read my post, I gave alot of reasons... A w7 soundin g30 times better than an L7? This tells me you know very little about what you're talking about. Again, in sub-bass frequencies, distortion is VERY hard to hear, especially in a car, comparing subwoofers' inherant SQ differences is extremely stupid. If a w7 sounds 30 times better than an L7, there is a MAJOR install error. Put any *decent* sub in the hands of a good installer, he will make it sound just as good as a W7. Oh, btw, there have been SQ champions using L7s. This is assuming we are making it a pure SQ system, which you guys seem to be arguing about. I never said the W7 wasnt an SQL sub, that is EXACTLY what I AM saying, I'm saying its not an SQ sub //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

I agree with a lot of that, but 13mm Xmax doesn't meant it's accuracy degrades at the same rate as the 33mm sub. 90% excursion on the 13mm might have 1% distortion while 90% on the 33mm might have 20% distortion.

There's more to it than just what proportion of the xmax is used is all I mean.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I agree with a lot of that, but 13mm Xmax doesn't meant it's accuracy degrades at the same rate as the 33mm sub. 90% excursion on the 13mm might have 1% distortion while 90% on the 33mm might have 20% distortion.
There's more to it than just what proportion of the xmax is used is all I mean.

That's not possible because a subs linear range of motion (Xmax) can only contain a defined about of distortion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

Only if the coil former stays straight.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Only if the coil former stays straight.

Xmax is only linear motion. When the motion is no longer linear, the sub is excurting beyond it's Xmax rating //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

You know it's almost impossible for the motor structure to have a 100% uniform magnetic field to move the VC right?

 

[T9X 10+ year member]

 

[jujumantb 10+ year member]

LOL....hardly irrelevant.... blah blah blah

I'm not going to get in an in depth SQ arguement about subs, that is exactly what I find extremely annoying and pointless. Again, you are thinking too much into this, so I will say it ONCE more, thats it. Paying attention? Good.

In sub-bass frequencies, distortion is VERY hard to hear, especially in a car, comparing subwoofers' inherant SQ differences is extremely stupid. A subwoofer is the least important thing about an SQ setup. Tada.

And my x-max comment was not to be taken as an end all judgement of SQ vs SQL subs. This whole arguement is based on opinions about what an SQ sub is... Everybody is biased by what they like themselves. The majority of you guys are bassheads, so of course you think the w7 is an SQ sub, but thats in your 140db bass and 120db highs world. On the other hand, an SQ guy will realize the hilarity of this discussion and tell you you are wrong. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

EDIT: I'm leaving to study for the night, wont be back to continue this, so take your shots while you can while there wont be a response //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I'm not going to get in an in depth SQ arguement about subs, that is exactly what I find extremely annoying and pointless. Again, you are thinking too much into this, so I will say it ONCE more, thats it. Paying attention? Good.
In sub-bass frequencies, distortion is VERY hard to hear, especially in a car, comparing subwoofers' inherant SQ differences is extremely stupid. A subwoofer is the least important thing about an SQ setup. Tada.

And my x-max comment was not to be taken as an end all judgement of SQ vs SQL subs. This whole arguement is based on opinions about what an SQ sub is... Everybody is biased by what they like themselves. The majority of you guys are bassheads, so of course you think the w7 is an SQ sub, but thats in you 140db bass and 120db highs world. On the other hand, an SQ guy will realize the hilarity of this discussion and tell you you are wrong. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

Again, you fail to comprehend. That's no problem though....

You say you're done, but yet you keep typing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

And no, I am not wrong....physics tells me I'm right.