sundown sa vs DD2500

[sjobas 10+ year member]

i have only had DDs, and want to try the sa;s

i guess they are equal powerwise and numbers? does anyone metered a single sa10?

give me some opinions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

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[FtheNutHuggers]

The 2510 is an all around fairly balanced subwoofer, whereas the 2512 has a relatively low ebp, requiring some serious acoustic assistance to its suspension. The SA series 10 and 12 are different, where the 12" is way more versatile without massive amounts of volume being necessitated to correct natural subwoofer response. Additional available volume is readily used to increase efficiency when using the SA series 10" and 12" drivers as compared to the DD 2500 series 10" and 12" where the volume is used to correct response. That equates normally to a louder vehicle on the same amount of power when using SA's versus 2500s. Why throw power at something when you don't have to to get the results. Sort of like offering a gasoline version of some vehicle to Germany........."no thanks there yanks, we've got a diesel that whoops that thing up and down the street on half the fuel consumption".

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

personally after working with both i prefer the dd when it comes to getting loud, not that the dd doesnt sound good it just requires the right box to perform right. they dot need huge boxes as noted above but that do like bigger boxes to drop lower. ive always tuned my 2500s to 38-40hz and still dropped to 30 with out a problem. thats how dd designed the speaker.es

were as the sa is designed to play with daily tuned boxes 32-36hz and hit all the necessary frequencies. the does play better when tuned lower than the dd, but tune both of them to 40hz and my money is on the dd.

either way i recommend 2 cubes net tuned to 34 for the sundown and 38 for the dd.

both should handle 1200w fine if the power is clean but im sketchy on putting that much to the sundown

 

[FtheNutHuggers]

You are tossing out references that don't have any correlation to audible response. Identifying a tuning frequency of say "38Hz" merely indicates which frequency the piston reaches minimum excursion. It does not correlate to any audible response, so your experiencing 30Hz performance was a byproduct of cabin geometry, volume and enclosure placement. This you know to be true by simply spinning your enclosure 90 degrees off its current axis, all to find your audible response curve shifted significantly in some areas and not so much in others. Spin it another 90 degrees and you shift everything again. Take the same enclosure and put it in a full size suburban and hear everything at totally different amplitudes. Nothing changed with the sub, nothing changed with the amp, nothing changed with the enclosure.....it's still tuned to 38Hz.....why in that vehicle does it NOT play anything below 35Hz worth mentioning. The only thing that remains constant is that the minimum piston travel happens at 38Hz. Put that box in a CRZ and now you could have extension below 30Hz and everything above 45Hz fall on its face or vice versa. The vehicle is the other half of an enclosure and every facet of that vehicle's geometry and integrity determine what effect it has on the enclosure at any listening location within and outside of that vehicle. Tuning frequency is a useless term unless ALL information is given with it, but then, the system info list under everyone's post would be a mile long and nobody on here would know what relevance it held. Such as: port shape, cross sectional area, length, number of turns or folds, distance between each turn or fold, geometry of each turn or fold, location of mouth along which plane, location of throat along which plane, location of subwoofer center in relation to throat and in relation to mouth, dimensions of compression chamber, type and thickness of wood, type, dimensions and location of braces or waveguides etc. Literally every one of those plays a major roll on the impedance curve of the enclosure within any given environment, and again....impedance curves dictate audible response curves.

The SA is no more designed to play in "boxes tuned to X" than the DD is or vice versa. Their parameters dictate how they will respond in each "recommended enclosure" IN EACH SPECIFIC ENVIRONMENT. Change the environment and the box could very well be rendered useless. It's too bad that so many people will judge a subwoofers value on one or two "recommended" enclosures, never experiencing the true abilities of a properly aligned system. No box program available for free or for purchase is going to give you accurate response curves for any geometry either. Try them all out, press whatever buttons you like to simulate a particular cabin, set filter slopes and centering frequencies to whatever you choose. For every time something actually aligns, a kindergartener could show you 50 more applications where it falls on its face. There are no blanket filter slopes or centering frequencies that will anywhere near accurately resemble the impedance match of more than ONE specific cabins air mass.

All that proof aside, for nearly every instance where someone can make a 2510 louder in a "box tuned to X", an SA10 could perform better within the same bandwidth in a correctly engineered enclosure. Likewise, for nearly every instance where someone has made an SA10 louder in a "box tuned to X", a DD 2510 could outperform it within the same bandwidth in a correctly engineered enclosure. One whose engineer did not ONCE look at or reference the Helmholtz resonant frequency/ frequencies (tuning frequencies).

Your recommendations for box volumes (irrespective of shape) and tuning frequencies has no data anywhere on earth, on paper or in a computer of any sort to back them up. They are regurgitations of a theory passed on to you from someone else who doesn't understand how many forces there are at play in the design of an enclosure. But............you are right there with everyone else I've met to this day (besides one), so maybe there is comfort in the numbers? If you want to progress in understanding, unlike the majority, you have to simply read the right material or experiment SCIENTIFICALLY. There are many thousands of experiments that can be skipped, because the math is already done, it's already a science with a name. Hydrodynamics, thermodynamics and aerodynamics....all three are involved in enclosure design whether the practicioner knows they are present or not. Unless you understand them, you won't be reaching peak efficiency within any given application.