Sundown SA-12 rev.3 DVC 4 ohm


alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
Back again. Looking at the sundown sa-12 as the title states. When paired with a soundqubed s1-1250 putting out 860 rms watts wired down to 2 ohms do you think this will be a good match? Any feedback is appreciated. Cheers.
 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,518
326
South Coast Metro, CA
With impedance rise as the sub coil travels through the motor, you'll be at waaaaaaaaaaaaay less power than you think you are, its usually triple your nominal wired impedance. Meaning wired to 2 ohms you'll see more around 4 to 6 ohm power. Wire down to 1 ohm and you'll be right around rated power for the sub. Keeps the signal clean while getting you the output you need. Vs not being happy with the output and clipping the setup or running the amp at 110%
 
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alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
wired to 2 ohms you'll see more around 4 to 6 ohm power. Get the 1 ohm version and you'll be right around rated power for the sub. Keeps the signal clean while getting you the output you need. Vs not being happy with the output and clipping the setup or running the amp at 110%
Super dumb question it seems, but why exactly would it be running on 4 or 6 ohms when it's wired to 2? I've heard the term impedance rise but not entirely sure what causes it or how it plays into the system.
 

BCotrell

Senior VIP Member
May 27, 2015
489
56
irvine, ca
In respects to impedance rise I’ll borrow one from espn’s dan Patrick - “You can't stop him, you can only hope to contain him.”
 
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alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
Why wouldn’t you run a d2 sub to get the ideal one ohm load again?
Well if I were to wire it down to 1 ohm with the DVC 2 ohm SA-12, having all of my cars electrical being stock, would I have to upgrade the electrical system in any way? I've been wary to do that because I'm kind of over dicking around with the wiring and not looking to spend more money on better wire as of this moment. Right now I have 4 gauge wire running to my amp and ground. If I was to run it down to a 1 ohm load would I have to get 0 gauge?
 

BCotrell

Senior VIP Member
May 27, 2015
489
56
irvine, ca
Well if I were to wire it down to 1 ohm with the DVC 2 ohm SA-12, having all of my cars electrical being stock, would I have to upgrade the electrical system in any way? I've been wary to do that because I'm kind of over dicking around with the wiring and not looking to spend more money on better wire as of this moment. Right now I have 4 gauge wire running to my amp and ground. If I was to run it down to a 1 ohm load would I have to get 0 gauge?
Sooooo....you want to do it but you don’t want to do it right. Buy some welding wire and just swap it. Also if you haven’t done your big 3 yet this convo is a wash.
 
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alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
Sooooo....you want to do it but you don’t want to do it right. Buy some welding wire and just swap it. Also if you haven’t done your big 3 yet this convo is a wash.
I guess you could say that. So I get that the big 3 is a must. Point taken. However, do you believe replacing the 4 gauge is just as important or could the 4 gauge work?
 

THATpurpleKUSH

Smoke weed everyday
10+ year member
Sep 30, 2009
7,476
533
Banging gears and passing queeers
Ill take a stab at explaining........Impedance rise happens when the coil moves and generates varying levels of resistance in the circuit as it plays different frequencies. A speaker's impedance is neither constant or linear. Instead it is shaped like a curve across the frequency spectrum. An enclosure plays an important role in the impedance curve in relation to the maximas and minimas.
 

BCotrell

Senior VIP Member
May 27, 2015
489
56
irvine, ca
I guess you could say that. So I get that the big 3 is a must. Point taken. However, do you believe replacing the 4 gauge is just as important or could the 4 gauge work?
You already have a 1250, I guess my nwuestion is why would you wire to 2/3 of your amps potential Output. Honestly after box rise, electrical etc your realized wattage will probably be under 1k anyways so as long as it’s not total junk 4 gauge you’ll probably be fine
 
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alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
You already have a 1250, I guess my nwuestion is why would you wire to 2/3 of your amps potential Output. Honestly after box rise, electrical etc your realized wattage will probably be under 1k anyways so as long as it’s not total junk 4 gauge you’ll probably be fine
I was under the impression that the impedance rise was only affecting the current between the amp and the subwoofer... and that the nominal impedance (what the system is wired down to) stayed constant between the battery and the amp. Is that a wrong assumption? I honestly don't know. So what you're saying is that if I wire the system down to 1 ohm so the amplifier, on paper, is drawing the respective amperes of a 1 ohm load, it will only draw the respective amperes of a 1 ohm load + impedance rise? Meaning that it will draw less than a nominal 1 ohm load from the battery? Side note: the wire I have is good wire, OFC, none of that CCA shit.
 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,518
326
South Coast Metro, CA
Super dumb question it seems, but why exactly would it be running on 4 or 6 ohms when it's wired to 2? I've heard the term impedance rise but not entirely sure what causes it or how it plays into the system.
Anytime a coil travels through the motor the impedance changes. Its physics, you will never see the ohm load you are wired to, usually double to triple your impedance depending on the frequency. Do a few clamp tests and you'll see. Literally at 2 ohms youll have like 150 to 300 actual watts going to that sub on music.
 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,518
326
South Coast Metro, CA
I was under the impression that the impedance rise was only affecting the current between the amp and the subwoofer... and that the nominal impedance (what the system is wired down to) stayed constant between the battery and the amp. Is that a wrong assumption? I honestly don't know. So what you're saying is that if I wire the system down to 1 ohm so the amplifier, on paper, is drawing the respective amperes of a 1 ohm load, it will only draw the respective amperes of a 1 ohm load + impedance rise? Meaning that it will draw less than a nominal 1 ohm load from the battery? Side note: the wire I have is good wire, OFC, none of that CCA shit.
Yes it'll draw waaaay less current. People overestimate the amount of electrical upgrades they need due to theories but in real world, theres way too many factors they never bothered to factor in.
 
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alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
Yes it'll draw waaaay less current. People overestimate the amount of electrical upgrades they need due to theories but in real world, theres way too many factors they never bothered to factor in.
So reading from my above replies... do you think my electrical system would be able to handle the amp being wired down to 1 ohm? Is the big 3 still needed? 0 gauge? Thank you for your response.
 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,518
326
South Coast Metro, CA
So reading from my above replies... do you think my electrical system would be able to handle the amp being wired down to 1 ohm? Is the big 3 still needed? 0 gauge? Thank you for your response.
0 gauge and big 3 is always necessary in my opinion if you are running those kinds of subwoofers. To lower your cost for wiring, this is quality copper wiring better than ofc because its industry regulated and its flexible enough for car use. Order one size up, 2/0 will be around 1/0 car audio wire.

 
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alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
0 gauge and big 3 is always necessary in my opinion if you are running those kinds of subwoofers. To lower your cost for wiring, this is quality copper wiring better than ofc because its industry regulated and its flexible enough for car use. Order one size up, 2/0 will be around 1/0 car audio wire.

Alright, thanks for the link. So the 0 gauge, in your opinion, is absolutely necessary? You don’t think i could get by with the 4 gauge that’s currently in there? Like will it be unsafe to run 4 gauge? Will it affect the sound output? I know it would be ideal to have the 0 gauge but I’m just wondering if i can avoid the extra work. Thanks.
 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,518
326
South Coast Metro, CA
Alright, thanks for the link. So the 0 gauge, in your opinion, is absolutely necessary? You don’t think i could get by with the 4 gauge that’s currently in there? Like will it be unsafe to run 4 gauge? Will it affect the sound output? I know it would be ideal to have the 0 gauge but I’m just wondering if i can avoid the extra work. Thanks.
depends on the power you are running and how short the run is and if its next to a battery. If you are running 2k rms but you have a battery in the back and its a 3 feet run from your batt to the amp then you'll get away with 4 gauge.

If its a run from the front battery straight to the amp in the rear, you are limited to 1500 rms. Any more you'll be blowing fuses left and right. If you dont have fuses, there's risk of burning the wire. However most of the times you'll just experience drastically reduced power output, sound quality etc..
 
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alvogel122

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
24
0
Wisconsin
depends on the power you are running and how short the run is and if its next to a battery. If you are running 2k rms but you have a battery in the back and its a 3 feet run from your batt to the amp then you'll get away with 4 gauge.

If its a run from the front battery straight to the amp in the rear, you are limited to 1500 rms. Any more you'll be blowing fuses left and right. If you dont have fuses, there's risk of burning the wire. However most of the times you'll just experience drastically reduced power output, sound quality etc..
I have the wire coming straight from the front battery back to the amp... roughly 17 feet I'd say. On paper with the s1-1250 wired down to 1 ohm it'd be pulling 1260 watts rms plus the added wattage that the two-channel pioneer is pulling, it would be about 1380 watts rms. As you have stated, with 4 gauge, I'm limited to 1500 watts rms and 1380 is below that. So with that info would I be good with that? Or would the sound quality still suffer?
 

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