Suggestions for rear-fill / mid-bass

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

I'm just going to copy and paste the few paragraphs I had in the facebook group to give you guys an idea of what I'm looking for and expecting. It is a bit long, I've tried to provide some cliffs at the bottom. I have no experience in this realm, so, feel free to educate me.

Going to be looking for some 6.5" mid-bass to run in the rear doors off of my HU power. Anyone have some cheaper suggestions from PE that I could give a shot? And, what's a good sensitivity rating on one of these speakers? Like, what is considered lower, higher, average?

right now I was thinking, just giving something a shot on PE if there's anything ideal, Anything in like the $25 range. Likely need a mounting depth under 3", gonna go out and measure in a bit. If there was a speaker that would absolute perform well in the power range, I'd be willing to pay a bit more, like around $40 in a couple weeks... anything more and I'd have to save up some cash. Though I'm open to all ideas! I have zero experience in this area, so any ideas are welcome. I'll be running this component stage up front off 150w a side:

CDT Audio COM-626 - Vertex Audio

I've already got a pair of Kenwood coaxes in the rear doors currently:

Kenwood eXcelon KFC-X168 6-1/2" 2-way car speakers at Crutchfield.com

So, I was thinking a mid-bass would be a better idea with such a strong front-stage. Something I can cross at like... 60 or 70hz to pick up where my sub drops off. Or if I'm really not gonna see much improvement in mid-bass with whatever I run, should I just stick with my current speakers back there? I know it'd be more ideal if I had an amp for them, instead of HU power, but I really don't want to be running 3 amps

So, cliffs:

Cheap mid-bass

Higher sensitivity rating? (ran off deck power)

under 3" mounting depth

6.5" mounting diameter

Suggest crossover points? I'm running a single SA-10, box tuned around 30-33hz, and will have the front-stage mentioned above.

Click to read more...

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

depth is always a concern with PE drivers. some budget 6.5's are 8 ohm. not necessarly a bad thing with HU power and rear fill midrange, but won't do much for midbass. midbass requires good seals and good power.

5.25" may be better suited for depth, and you can get a 4 ohm version.

Dayton ND140-4 5-1/4" Aluminum Cone Midbass Driver 4 Ohm

or this in 8 ohms:

Tang Band W5-704D 5-1/4" Woofer

neither are incredibly sensitive, but meet the other criteria well.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

the issue with rear door midbass is phase interference due to pathlength and the effect it will have on the sound stage. midbass drivers have a strong influence on the location of vocals and instruments. the wavelength of 70Hz is 16 ft, you will get cancellation when the PLD is 1/2 wavelength. so if your subs are 8 feet further away, they will cancel at the crossover point - not good. as your subs move closer, the cancellation point moves higher in frequency. but note that you'll get partial cancellation around that point. the crossover slope will play a role here.

the point of this is that without T/A your door midbass will have some cancellation with the subs and front speakers. where that cancellation is depends on distance, and the severity of the cancellation depends on the level difference between the two speakers.

you want midbass to provide a seamless transition between subs and midrange. but you need a lot of midbass to achive that at moderate output levels. you want an amp on midbass drivers otherwise it won't keep up with the subs or comps. also, midbass placement will affect the soundstage.

you may be happier letting the front comps handle midbass and just using a rear fill midrange driver off teh HU with the expectation they will be quieter and thus not as easily localized.

for those prices, you can afford to experiment.

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

Thank you, that is a huge help, and makes sense. And those dayton's look pretty ideal, I might just have to give those a shot. The 8 ohm speakers on PE did ward me off. As I'd imagine those would see even LESS power than the already meager amount my HU would put out. The speakers and subs aren't too far away, so maybe the cancellation would be out of the subwoofer's range. But it would make sense a proper mid-bass would need a good deal more of power. Maybe a midrange speaker would be better for now, or just leaving my coaxes. However I have just discovered staggered amplifiers so perhaps down the road I could obtain one of those and provide an adequate amount of power for a proper mid bass.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

don't let 8 ohm drivers scare you off. i've done what i'm telling you not to do.

these beasts are 8 ohm SVC. i put these in the rear deck of my dad's 90 deville. ran off an Alpine HU, they have a lot more punch than the factory speakers did (obviously). and they cover midbass being played full range (natural roll-off above 200Hz due to inductance). it bugs me that i can localize them, but my pop's is thrilled to have full range music regardless of it's location. the factory dash locations were used with aftermarket 4x6 coax (with a HPF).

those rear woofers have a 2" thick mount, but mate up with the rear deck perfectly and you can't tell.

can you do what you want? sure.

does it sound good? i don't think so. my pop's wants a factory appearance, which limited me to what we have now...

i drove his car this weekend for a trip, about 3 hours each way. it's annoying having the front/rear split around 200Hz. i want to put an amp in the car to run the rear woofers as subs, then install midbass up front and replace the 4x6 with some plate 4x6 comps. that would be the correct method.

i've had many speaker configurations over the past 18 years, and front midbass is always preferred.