Subjective opinion of experienced peeps

[psycho72 10+ year member]

This would be for a daily driver and also assumes the same speak so that I can make a comparative analysis, but the bit on Sd x Xmax is a big help as well, I will use that as a secondary consideration to choose X over Y or vice versa so that I can go on to the next comparo choice. Alot a choices so I am trying to find a way to narrow the field.

Squeak can you elaborate a little on the Sd x Xmax. Like for instance how much of a rated Xmax can a woof really acheive without sounding like shyt? 80, 90%? And how much of an impact would 33mm of one way linear Xmax make over 16mm's?

 

[Nikuk 5,000+ posts]

Squeak can you elaborate a little on the Sd x Xmax. Like for instance how much of a rated Xmax can a woof really acheive without sounding like shyt? 80, 90%? And how much of an impact would 33mm of one way linear Xmax make over 16mm's?

Because of the way Xmax is rated, the woofer should be able to use all of it withour much distortion. Xmax should be when the motor force runs out, not when the mechanical limit is hit.

Also motor designs such as the Re, Adire, etc... also help limit distortion. The technology is worhtwhile.

33mm of xmax will have much more output in general then 16mm. But keep in mind, all things have trade offs.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Squeak can you elaborate a little on the Sd x Xmax. Like for instance how much of a rated Xmax can a woof really acheive without sounding like shyt? 80, 90%?

Well.....should be about all of it. That's pretty much the definition of Xmax; one way linear excursion. There are other measures of mechanical limits and motor limits (like Xmech, Xsus and Xmag). That's why we have Xmax, to tell us how far the sub can move and in a linear fashion.

But, another thing kinda related to your question; the further a subwoofer travels, the more distortion it has. Take 2 subwoofers; one has 33mm Xmax, the other has 7mm. Now, play them to where they both are excurting 7mm; Theoretically, the higher-excursion subwoofer should have less distortion even though they are both playing at the same level because it is well within it's linear range of motion whereas the lower-excursion sub is basically at it's maximum linear movement. There are things that can be done to minimize this distortion (such as the XBL^2 motor technology) though. It's still there, just not as much.

And how much of an impact would 33mm of one way linear Xmax make over 16mm's?

Well, assuming the same cone area; the 33mm sub would (theoretically) be 3db louder (assuming you actually used all of the excursion). 3db is noticeable, that's about the only way to describe it. Not mind boggling louder, but definitely noticeable.

Damnit Njcc....I was trying to type my response and work, and you snuck in there....LOL

 

[Nikuk 5,000+ posts]

Damnit Njcc....I was trying to type my response and work, and you snuck in there....LOL

LMAO... I'm sorry squeak. Business is slow... I dont have much to work on today.

Besides, I knew that I could count on you type a full response. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

-Nick

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Keep in mind that that test was also done on a old AC (old audiocontrol mic). This si not necessarily accurate in today's real world of competitions of dB's say ...on the new TL sensor (Termlab sensor, not mic). Just letting you know, it was a good way to compare all on the same field using the same mic, but that's not necessarily anywhere near what it would really be today!

peace

NG

p.s. you haven't decided yet?!?!?!?! What else do you need b4 you can decided?

 

[tRiGgEr 5,000+ posts]

Im a SQL guy. Love to have great sounding music with the occasional loudness.

I have one 12" right now on about 1300 watts. Plenty for daily driving. Anything else would require bigger alts and crap and for daily thats just a waste of money.

 

[psycho72 10+ year member]

p.s. you haven't decided yet?!?!?!?! What else do you need b4 you can decided?

You seen that Carls Jr commercial with the guy in the supermaket looking at all the meat. Notice how overwhelmed he is with all the choices as he looks back and forth and then pokes the meat. That is me!!!!!LOL

Actually I have come back to where I started in that I have decided to go with 2 x 15's or 2 x 12's depending enclosure requirements. Now I just have to compare driver requirements, I'll probably put it all on a spread sheet and pick the one that closes matches what I want. I have actually already found an amp for the uber woofs (a Lanzar OPTI2000D for $300). But I will only get then amp if it is absolutely necessary.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Because of the way Xmax is rated, the woofer should be able to use all of it withour much distortion. Xmax should be when the motor force runs out, not when the mechanical limit is hit.

xmax is actually rated as the lesser of xsus and xmech. This means xmax is limited either by motor force, or by suspension limits. Some subs will hit their suspension limits before their motor limit (called suspension limited and is fairly common), thus you wouldn't want the rated xmax to be greater than the suspension could actually move, or further than the suspension can control the cone in a linear manner that still keeps it within the acceptable distortion levels.. This is why xmax (usually) is the lesser of xmech and xsus, mechanical limits definitely do play a role in xmax.

xmax is rated for linear travel, which I believe is defined as 70% BL distortion.

 

[Nikuk 5,000+ posts]

xmax is actually rated as the lesser of xsus and xmech. This means xmax is limited either by motor force, or by suspension limits. Some subs will hit their suspension limits before their motor limit (called suspension limited and is fairly common), thus you wouldn't want the rated xmax to be greater than the suspension could actually move, or further than the suspension can control the cone in a linear manner that still keeps it within the acceptable distortion levels.. This is why xmax (usually) is the lesser of xmech and xsus, mechanical limits definitely do play a role in xmax.
xmax is rated for linear travel, which I believe is defined as 70% BL distortion.

exactly. which is why i say should be the lesser of xsus, not xmech. In a perfect world...

 

[EFFENDI 10+ year member]

psycho72:

1. calling them "woofs" = teh ghey

2. where in LA are you?

3. 94-96 Impala SS are officially my favorite cars....

 

[packerfan 10+ year member]

Why not just make an Impala SS clone? People do it all the time around here, and if you do it right it looks just like an SS.

 

[EFFENDI 10+ year member]

Why not just make an Impala SS clone? People do it all the time around here, and if you do it right it looks just like an SS.

May look like one, but it wont ride, perform or handle like one.If I were to get a Caprice, I'd more than likely put the same amount of money into it to make it an SS clone. So whats the point? For me I can't stand the all show, no go look. The stock V6 on the Caprices just doesnt have enough guts.

 

[Acidburn 5,000+ posts]

thats why people get the 9C1s, LT1 + way stiffer suspension + clone kit = close to an Impala, but not quite

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

thats why people get the 9C1s, LT1 + way stiffer suspension + clone kit = close to an Impala, but not quite

Still wouldn't be the right thing; VIN # tells all. But then again, I'm an "it's either an original or it's worthless" kinda guy

 

[Acidburn 5,000+ posts]

that's why i said not quite