SQ: JL W7 vs. TC OEM10

[Ignatowski 5,000+ posts]

Out of curiosity, what supersubs "own" the W7?

Owned was a strong word,I should have simply said Surpass in Output and SQ etc

now get off my ***:blackeye:

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

why ask why

Because you seem to make statements with no knowledge to back them up. If you are sure of yourself then you will have no problem providing the technical statements to back-up your comments.

Punkorama-The W7 is clearly the superior speaker in more ways than just how it is marketed. Whether you are willing to fork over the cash for it is up to you, but it is simply unfair to compare the OEM to the W7, even considering multiples

Mabey you and Telegon need to hang out with all you comments and nothing to back them up.

To show you how this works-The IDMAX had tighter, quicker bass response while the W7 had a bit more output.IMO

Punkorama-I can name several drivers I would put up an W7 any day of the week. It is not the end all be all. Just to name a couple for you, some you probably never heard off:SI MAG v2, IDMAX, JBL W12GTi, Dayton HO, SS RL-p, TC, Boston SPG. Yes I have had most of these I listed. Don't forget the install is going to play a big part in this also.

JL makes a very good driver. TC makes a very good driver. Everyone has their own personnal taste. I have used both I think they each have things they are better at. They both have good SQ is it the best out there mabey, personnal taste. There are alot of driver out there that are very good at both things your are after.

TC-JL-ID-JBL-FI-SI MAGs-SS

Now ask yourself what makes a great SQ sub, which is highly debatable?Faraday Rings, Low end ability, Tight response, how well it has the ability to integerate with front stage, Freq. response.

Either of the subs you are looking at IMO are near the top of the Market. Installed properly they both are an excellent choice. It's your ears and how you like your sub to play.

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

Because you seem to make statements with no knowledge to back them up. If you are sure of yourself then you will have no problem providing the technical statements to back-up your comments.


Mabey you and Telegon need to hang out with all you comments and nothing to back them up.

my statement

get the JL.

did i need to back it up with any 'statements' ? No.

As the owner of a W7 i think he cannot go wrong getting one. If you dont like it or cant afford it then tough cookies pal. And as far as my technical knowledge in the matter, I have nothing to prove to some nobody like you on the internet so if i want to make any 'statements' that is completely dependent on whether my left testicle is itching or not. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

Please continue with you knowledge.

I am happy that you got a W7. It makes you the best.

Like to give your thoughts on copper shorting rings also and mabey a flat piston sub. O' wait you have no clue what they are. OOOps

Maybe you could break down Thiele Small Parameters for me also I am just not understanding what it all means.

 

[SocMunky 10+ year member]

Because you seem to make statements with no knowledge to back them up. If you are sure of yourself then you will have no problem providing the technical statements to back-up your comments.


Mabey you and Telegon need to hang out with all you comments and nothing to back them up.

To show you how this works-The IDMAX had tighter, quicker bass response while the W7 had a bit more output.IMO

Punkorama-I can name several drivers I would put up an W7 any day of the week. It is not the end all be all. Just to name a couple for you, some you probably never heard off:SI MAG v2, IDMAX, JBL W12GTi, Dayton HO, SS RL-p, TC, Boston SPG. Yes I have had most of these I listed. Don't forget the install is going to play a big part in this also.

JL makes a very good driver. TC makes a very good driver. Everyone has their own personnal taste. I have used both I think they each have things they are better at. They both have good SQ is it the best out there mabey, personnal taste. There are alot of driver out there that are very good at both things your are after.

TC-JL-ID-JBL-FI-SI MAGs-SS

Now ask yourself what makes a great SQ sub, which is highly debatable?Faraday Rings, Low end ability, Tight response, how well it has the ability to integerate with front stage, Freq. response.

Either of the subs you are looking at IMO are near the top of the Market. Installed properly they both are an excellent choice. It's your ears and how you like your sub to play.

Hmm....yeah, probably didn't wanna go there. Carry on!

Edit: I absolutely agree with the last statement however, everyone should demo subs/comp sets whenever humanly possible. I can describe my rainbows to someone all day, yet until they have a listen, they would really have no grasp on their sound. Same with anyl other speakers as well for that matter...

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

Please continue with you knowledge.
I am happy that you got a W7. It makes you the best.

Like to give your thoughts on copper shorting rings also and mabey a flat piston sub. O' wait you have no clue what they are. OOOps

Maybe you could break down Thiele Small Parameters for me also I am just not understanding what it all means.

It makes me the best? I never said such thing. The sand in your torn little ****** concocted that statement. And the rest of things you said Blah blah blah okay mr. nobody on the internet i have so much to prove to you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/*******.gif.a649d21efc0d1fd4890a6428166586c1.gif

good attempt at trolling though.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

As the owner of a W7 i think he cannot go wrong getting one.

i'm not sure if you've heard the tc-oem or not, but just because you own a w7 doesn't mean that that's what the OP should choose.

as this is a VS. thread, i think the OP wants comparisons, not biases. however, most statements in VS. threads are biased, which is why I don't like these kind of threads.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Because you seem to make statements with no knowledge to back them up. If you are sure of yourself then you will have no problem providing the technical statements to back-up your comments.

And I suppose now is your chance to do the same then, isn't it? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Mabey you and Telegon need to hang out with all you comments and nothing to back them up.

To show you how this works-The IDMAX had tighter, quicker bass response while the W7 had a bit more output.IMO

Good thing you added that last caveat. It makes the rest totally illegitimate. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Punkorama-I can name several drivers I would put up an W7 any day of the week. It is not the end all be all. Just to name a couple for you, some you probably never heard off:SI MAG v2, IDMAX, JBL W12GTi, Dayton HO, SS RL-p, TC, Boston SPG. Yes I have had most of these I listed. Don't forget the install is going to play a big part in this also.

You did not list a single sub I haven't heard of, and most I've also had the pleasure of hearing in person. I am not a little school boy ***** you are going to come in and drop names on to try and impress. As for their ability when compared to the W7, forgetting price for a few moments, you'd have a tough time comparing them with quantifiable measurements and still say that the W7 is as good or better than most you listed.

JL makes a very good driver. TC makes a very good driver. Everyone has their own personnal taste. I have used both I think they each have things they are better at. They both have good SQ is it the best out there mabey, personnal taste. There are alot of driver out there that are very good at both things your are after.

TC-JL-ID-JBL-FI-SI MAGs-SS

Again, you mention everyone has their own personal taste. So why do you come in here on a tangent like everyone else is wrong and you have all the answers?

Now ask yourself what makes a great SQ sub, which is highly debatable?Faraday Rings, Low end ability, Tight response, how well it has the ability to integerate with front stage, Freq. response.

Faraday rings don't make a great SQ sub. Low inductance with very little modulation is a step in the right direction, but Faraday rings in the wrong places can actually be a big negative detractor. I'd gradly sacrifice some inductance issues, particularly in a sub (why on earth are people so obsessed with these things?) for more linear BL. The rest of the things you outlined are all frequency response related and have as much to do with the enclosure as they do the sub!

Either of the subs you are looking at IMO are near the top of the Market. Installed properly they both are an excellent choice. It's your ears and how you like your sub to play.

Weird that you follow up the rest of your garbage with this good post. Quite odd...

Regardless of what you think, everyone knows that the W7 is one of the best engineered products available in the subwoofer world, particularly when it first came out. In the same respect that it is wrong to call all things JL Audio godly, it is also wrong to not give all things JL Audio their deserved respect. Forget about price for a moment and just look at the product: the W7 is heads and tails better than the TC OEM.

 

[jasonw30 10+ year member]

i'm new to this forum,and i am a w7 owner.i am 32 years old and have had many different subs in my lifetime.this is my input,there is subs out there now that sounds just as good as the w7 for less money.but with jl ,you get what you pay for IMO.

one thing comes to mind with the w7,clarity with output.it is one of the tightest subs on the market.i am not telling you to buy one,this is just my experience with the w7.IMO,i would get what i could afford.

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

I said what I said because to me it seems if anyone in this thread disagreed with anything other than the W7 is the best then you let them know they where wrong.

Punk0Rama-Never said you did not have knowledge. Just trying to get you to give the guy some information to back up your statement. I prod you a little and look at some good answers you gave. Maybe I misunderstood you from the start.

I agree 100% with this statement-

Faraday rings don't make a great SQ sub. Low inductance with very little modulation is a step in the right direction, but Faraday rings in the wrong places can actually be a big negative detractor. I'd gradly sacrifice some inductance issues, particularly in a sub (why on earth are people so obsessed with these things?) for more linear BL. The rest of the things you outlined are all frequency response related and have as much to do with the enclosure as they do the sub!

BL Curve-Maybe the most important curve, since it's responsible for a majority of the distortion produced by a speaker. Because we want the speaker to produce an equal force in the positive and negative direction. Linearity I consider very important.

I will throw this in also-transient response is as how fast a speaker starts, and how fast it stops in reaction to a given input signal.

T/S parameters don't tell you anything about how a speaker is actually going to perform. But how it strange to see that manufactures are quick to post them. Would be better if they posted the Klippel graphs from testing. To bad we do not have the Klippel graphs to compare the performance of these two against each other.

Get the W7 its better. How does that help him. I am just trying to prod you to give him a little more information.

And I suppose now is your chance to do the same then, isn't it?

Ok I will-I like them both for different reasons.

They both have the ability get plenty loud. The JL to me rolls off a little early than TC. Both have good response, are snappy and controlled. I would say the JL has a little tighter response. The TC has a little better x-max. The TC will also work in a smaller enclosure. To me the JL is pickier with its enclosure and takes a little more work to get the most out of it.

My verdict-The JL and TC perform very close. I would give the TC the nod only due to price vs. performance. I would have no problem running either of these subs. They both are top performers. Its a pretty even comparison IMO.

I would say from reading reviews and comparison though the TC-9 is probably better than both of these. But I have not had the pleasure of owning one to test out yet.

I went with the TC as it fit my current install goals better and had the power on tap to run it.

I pose this question to you though have you owned both or is your opinion based soley on what you currently own and nothing else.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I will throw this in also-transient response is as how fast a speaker starts, and how fast it stops in reaction to a given input signal.

T/S parameters don't tell you anything about how a speaker is actually going to perform.

T/S parameters allow you to arrive at the parameters and performance of the speaker in a specific enclosure. This information includes transient response and frequency response (you can't have one without the other).

No, they won't tell you Bl/Le/Cms linearity or distortion performance. But they aren't utterly useless either.

But how it strange to see that manufactures are quick to post them. Would be better if they posted the Klippel graphs from testing. To bad we do not have the Klippel graphs to compare the performance of these two against each other.

Honestly...how many people purchasing the equipment would actually understand the information from a Klippel? 10%.....maybe?

Hell, how many people selling the equipment would understand it?

Most of the people in both categories don't understand the information they are given regarding a product (T/S parameters, for example).........

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

squeak9798-I agree, my delivery sucked in reference the T/S parameters and was to generalized. I take a big hit on that one. I will try and not throw such generalized statements out.

Didn't think about what you stated below, good point. It would be hard to explain all the Klippel stuff to a customer walking in off the street and like they would give a dam even if the guy selling it understood how to explain it.

Hell, how many people selling the equipment would understand it?

I am just trying to help the guy out vs. saying "buy this one I got it, its the best".

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

so you tried to thug on people by throwing the words 'thiele/small' and it backfired?

LOL. hahahahahaha

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

Did not back fire just to generalized. What I should have said is this. T/S parameters only describe part of the speakers capability. You cannot base how a drive sounds solely based on T/S parameters. It is only one piece of the equation. I am no expert I admit that. At least I can.

I even answered questioned asked of me and admitted something I stated that was wrong. No biggy no one is ever 100% correct. I am not afraid to admit I learn something new everyday. No shame in that. I am open to learning even from you. I am just waiting for you to teach me something. Other than name calling.

Telegon80-How about I post up a BL curve and you explain the info. Want to give it a shot. I will even just let you say if its good or bad or if you are so smart you can explain why you think its good or bad. Maybe a True/False would be easier for you. Keep all you good info coming. Name calling and whatever else makes you feel like a man.

I do not have to resort to name calling. I just asked a few simple questions and you seem to have gotten all bent out of shape.

This is what I learned from you so far(name calling and flaming)- Maybe someone could loan you a tissue or shoulder to cry on. Maybe some Vaseline for your ****** that has become irritated.

PunkORama-He actually has skills I asked questions he did not get all bent out of shape. Wonder why-O wait he has some knowledge to back it up and is not afraid to share his knowledge in the thread.

 

[Telegon80 10+ year member]

You cant use the ****** comeback on me, i already used it on you. I never got bent out of shape, I just said i have nothing to prove to you, and i dont. Bro post your BL curve please you might even learn a thing or two.