SQ 12" or 15" and question about filling midbass

[Paradigmonds]

Hello gents, and ladies, of course,

I'm in the process of putting together a semi-SQ setup in my Jeep Grand Cherokee and have a question regarding SQ subs and some possible recommendations on how to arrange my system.

Let me start by saying that I was big into car audio in the late 90's and then again for a short period in 2004-2006, but I've been out of the loop for quite a while.

I've always been an SQ guy, and while there are certainly moments when I want to crank it up, thats not my primary aim when it comes to my subwoofer setup. I want transparency the large majority of the time, but with the ability for the sub to handle situations where I want more. Hope that makes sense.

Right now I've running off of a Pioneer DEH-80PRS head unit. I've got 6.5" components in the front and rear doors. I'll be upgrading to a 3-way component set in the front soon, but thats another topic for another place.

So, my questions, first off, is what are some recommendations for SQ subs. Yes, I know that any sub can potentially sound good in the right box with the right power, etc. I've had sub setups with Polk Audio, Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, Infinity, Elemental Designs, and my most recently ( in 2006 ) was with 2 Ascendant Audio Avalanche 15"s.

As far as SQ subs go, I've heard the names JL W6 and W7, Diamond, Dayton, DLS, Rainbow, Fi, Morel, and others thrown around. I generally always use sealed boxes, if that has any effect on recommendations.

I listen to a wide variety of music, from classical and instrumental to breakbeats and drum and bass, with a smattering of pop, hip-hop, classic rock, and rap thrown in. I need something hard hitting enough to reproduce the rap and breakbeats with authority, but quick and responsive enough to handle the drum and bass, while also still being musical enough to handle the bass guitar on some jazz or rock tracks.

Now, here comes the next question.......I've always had two 12"s or two 15"s, but I've always tended to feel like the 80Hz - 160 Hz midbass was somewhat lacking. Once the subwoofers are in, I will likely crossover the 6.5" mids in my doors somewhere between 200-330 Hz 12db/oct. So, I was considering instead of getting two 12" or two 15" getting one 15" and getting two 8" subs that I can bandpass crossover at maybe 63Hz highpass and 160Hz lowpass so that I can get a strong boost in the midbass. Anyone have experience with a setup like this? My other option would be to strengthen my back doors quite a bit and then put a pair of dedicated midbass 6.5"s like the RE XXX 6.5"s or even upgrade to a 7" or 8" in the rear doors and stick with the two 12"s in the trunk.

Any recommendations or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

W

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

JL is still one of the top SQ brands. Moral, Audison/Hertz, and many raw drivers folks get off parts express and madisounds. If you want midbass get midbass drivers not subs. They need to be upfront because they will be crossing over high enough to localize.

 

[Paradigmonds]

Thanks DDtC,

To be a little more definitive, here's what I think I'm going to do.

I'm going to put a 3 way component set up front. I'm going to take the 6.5" out of the doors, make some fiberglass kick-panel enclosures and put the 6.5" and the tweeter in the kicks. The 2" or 3" midranges are going to go in the dash, and then I'm going to put a second set of tweeters either on the sail panel or on the A pillar.

Tweeters probably crossed over at 2400 Hz or 3000 Hz at 18 db/octave with my headunit. Midrange will be crossed over with the passive that will come with the component set, although I may do some adjustments on the low pass with the head unit.

In the back, I'm going to reinforce my back doors, and then replace the 6.5" with either 7" or 8" dedicated midbass speakers. The bottom end of my midrange output from my headunit will be crossed over at 100 Hz 18 db or 24 db / octave, but I'm also going to put these on passive bandpass crossovers ( 100HZ - 240 Hz 12db/octave ), leaving me the ability to let my midranges in the front still produce the 250Hz-3000Hz range.

For subs, I want to have two 12"s in a sealed enclosure ( 1.9-2.4 cu/ft per woofer depending on needs ) -- may even go with two 15"s if they will work in that size enclosure. They will be running on between 450 - 600 clean watts RMS, depending on which amp I use. I want the SQ to be good, but I guess I would say I'm looking for more of an SQL setup ( even though many audiophiles claim that doesnt REALLY exist ). I'm admittedly a basshead to a certain degree, but not one that wants to be able to rattle windows from a mile away. I want my bass clean, articulate, and punchy when it needs to be, but I also want it to get loud and boom and give me the kind of force that I've gotten from systems in the past.

This setup will never be for competitions. It is simply for my pure enjoyment of music while I'm in my car.

Thanks again, and any recommendations on subs ( or the 3-way components for up front ) are greatly appreciated.

Have a great day!

W

 

[treesive 10+ year member]

For speakers I am partial to Morel and Dynaudio if you are willing to spend some cash. For substage I have been really impressed with the IA Flatlyne's after they broke in. I would suggest them for what you are asking for (12", 600 watts, sealed 1.5cubes net worked well for me). Jl is still a quality Sq brand so you wouldn't be bad off choosing them. If you liked your AA Avalanche I would also look into the AA havoc. To add to your sub SQ list I would look at TC Sounds, Dynaudio, JBL GTI, Focal, Stereo Integrity, and Image Dynamics. Several other quality brands that I would call non pure SQ subs to look at are SSA, Obsidian, and Sundown probably in this order for SQ.

 

[CerwinVega_Fan 10+ year member]

Focal??

 

[treesive 10+ year member]

Focal??

Not a fan? I thought I saw an ad of yours with a focal not long ago?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Thanks DDtC,
To be a little more definitive, here's what I think I'm going to do.

I'm going to put a 3 way component set up front. I'm going to take the 6.5" out of the doors, make some fiberglass kick-panel enclosures and put the 6.5" and the tweeter in the kicks. The 2" or 3" midranges are going to go in the dash, and then I'm going to put a second set of tweeters either on the sail panel or on the A pillar.

Tweeters probably crossed over at 2400 Hz or 3000 Hz at 18 db/octave with my headunit. Midrange will be crossed over with the passive that will come with the component set, although I may do some adjustments on the low pass with the head unit.

In the back, I'm going to reinforce my back doors, and then replace the 6.5" with either 7" or 8" dedicated midbass speakers. The bottom end of my midrange output from my headunit will be crossed over at 100 Hz 18 db or 24 db / octave, but I'm also going to put these on passive bandpass crossovers ( 100HZ - 240 Hz 12db/octave ), leaving me the ability to let my midranges in the front still produce the 250Hz-3000Hz range.

For subs, I want to have two 12"s in a sealed enclosure ( 1.9-2.4 cu/ft per woofer depending on needs ) -- may even go with two 15"s if they will work in that size enclosure. They will be running on between 450 - 600 clean watts RMS, depending on which amp I use. I want the SQ to be good, but I guess I would say I'm looking for more of an SQL setup ( even though many audiophiles claim that doesnt REALLY exist ). I'm admittedly a basshead to a certain degree, but not one that wants to be able to rattle windows from a mile away. I want my bass clean, articulate, and punchy when it needs to be, but I also want it to get loud and boom and give me the kind of force that I've gotten from systems in the past.

This setup will never be for competitions. It is simply for my pure enjoyment of music while I'm in my car.

Thanks again, and any recommendations on subs ( or the 3-way components for up front ) are greatly appreciated.

Have a great day!

W

Looks to me you're going to have to much going on. Simplicity is best. And like I said, you want mid bass up front. You can do a dedicated mid bass in the kicks, mid in the doors and tweeter in the sail panel. Rears are not needed at all.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

I would like the chance to design you a system. What year is the Grand Cherokee?

 

[Paradigmonds]

Its a '98.

OK, I have another question for you guys..........I'm thinking about spending some time this weekend making some custom kickpanel enclosures. I'm planning to put a 3-way component system in the front of the vehicle. Right now, I have some old MB Quart Component 6.5"s in the doors ( I really liked that these old MB Quart components have separate inputs for the woofers and tweeter on the crossover so you could use separate amps ), with the tweeters high up on the A-Pillar. Then I also have some 1" silk tweeters from a pair of Polk MOMO components ( very fond of the sound of these old tweeters ) in the dash, with the MOMO 6.5"s in the back doors. The dash actually has spots that will fit a 2"-3" midrange, as long as it isn't one with a whole lot of mounting depth ( for instance, the DLS Ultimate or Iridium midrange ). More importantly, the dash locations are actually not placed so that they reflect off of the windsheild. They are actually imaged pretty well, angled back towards the driver and passenger seats. So, my question then becomes, would you make a kickpanel enclosure for the woofer and the tweeter and then put the midranges in the dash. Keep the woofer in the door and make a kickpanel enclosure for the midrange and tweeter, OR make the kickpanel enclosure for the woofer and midrange and then put the tweeters in the dash. Keep in mind, I will still have a 2nd pair of tweeters mounted up high to try to help bring the soundstage up a bit.

I actually never really understood imaging until my last system was put together ( in a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee ) back in 2006. I had components in the front and back doors, and my Avalanche 15's in the back, but I just wanted something to improve the quality of the sound and the listening experience. I looked around and ended up getting a CDT Audio Front Imaging Enhancement set, and once I got it set up, that was the first time that I really felt like I could close my eyes and literally "see" the stage out over my hood and hear all of the locations of the instruments and vocals. It was an eye opening experience, and I may actually grab a pair of CDT tweeters, or even the Imaging Enhancement set once again to use as that second pair of highs up front. Of course, I've been amazed at the ability of the 80PRS to tweak the soundstage. The Position Adjustment and T.A. are great.

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's help!

W