saddam sentenced to death what do you guys think?

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

By Washington correspondent Kim Landers

A leaked military report shows the US Central Command believes Iraq is one step closer to what it describes as "chaos".

The classified material includes a colour-coded bar chart with the word "peace" in green at one end and "chaos" in red at the other.

The level of sectarian violence is marked with an arrow close to the word "chaos".

A Pentagon spokesman says it is "regrettable" the classified briefing has been leaked.

White House spokesman Tony Snow says the situation in Iraq has since changed.

"If you got the same report last week you would have found out the national sectarian incidents from the 21st to the 27th dropped 23 per cent," he said.

Opinion polls show the Iraq war is the number one concern of voters ahead of next week's US mid-term elections.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200611/s1779290.htm

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

ABC Assesment. That is a good source.

Go talk to a few people who have been over there.

And not the winey ones. The ones who joined the military to do their job and not to get a free paycheck expecting to never go to war beause they joined under Clinton.

 

[mtdewelf 10+ year member]

he'll die before being executed probably anyway, what does it matter

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

He kept his country "in check" because he killed, tortured or imprisioned those who opposed him.
Is the country, and the world, overall a better place without him in charge of Iraq?

Absolutely.

Should we have went over there in the first place?

Doesn't matter much anymore....we're there now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

my point exactly; his ultimate successor, when we fail to accomplish anything and eventually pull out, will use the same brutal tactics he did in order to get the country in check again.

I just think your foolish if you think were going to get everything settled and have this thing turn out well. I think the best we can hope for is picking who the next brutal leader will be, and let him get started. If he gets out of check we can just topple him and pick another. Its not like at one time we didn't support Saddam. I mean come on



Believing were going to create a stable democracy there is foolish; even if we could, it iwouldnt be worth the cost.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

ABC Assesment. That is a good source.
Go talk to a few people who have been over there.

And not the winey ones. The ones who joined the military to do their job and not to get a free paycheck expecting to never go to war beause they joined under Clinton.

yeah its originally a nytimes story, but you have to reg to view.

Military Charts Movement of Conflict in Iraq Toward chaos

New York Times

By MICHAEL R. GORDON

Published: November 1, 2006

WASHINGTON, Oct. 30 — A classified briefing prepared two weeks ago by the United States Central Command portrays Iraq as edging toward chaos, in a chart that the military is using as a barometer of civil conflict.

A one-page slide shown at the Oct. 18 briefing provides a rare glimpse into how the military command that oversees the war is trying to track its trajectory, particularly in terms of sectarian fighting.

The slide includes a color-coded bar chart that is used to illustrate an “Index of Civil Conflict.” It shows a sharp escalation in sectarian violence since the bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra in February, and tracks a further worsening this month despite a concerted American push to tamp down the violence in Baghdad.

In fashioning the index, the military is weighing factors like the ineffectual Iraqi police and the dwindling influence of moderate religious and political figures, rather than more traditional military measures such as the enemy’s fighting strength and the control of territory.

 

The conclusions the Central Command has drawn from these trends are not encouraging, according to a copy of the slide that was obtained by The New York Times. The slide shows Iraq as moving sharply away from “peace,” an ideal on the far left side of the chart, to a point much closer to the right side of the spectrum, a red zone marked “chaos.” As depicted in the command’s chart, the needle has been moving steadily toward the far right of the chart.

 

An intelligence summary at the bottom of the slide reads “urban areas experiencing ‘ethnic cleansing’ campaigns to consolidate control” and “violence at all-time high, spreading geographically.” According to a Central Command official, the index on civil strife has been a staple of internal command briefings for most of this year. The analysis was prepared by the command’s intelligence directorate, which is overseen by Brig. Gen. John M. Custer.

Gen. John P. Abizaid, who heads the command, warned publicly in August about the risk of civil war in Iraq, but he said then that he thought it could be averted. In evaluating the prospects for all-out civil strife, the command concentrates on “key reads,” or several principal variables.

According to the slide from the Oct. 18 briefing, the variables include “hostile rhetoric” by political and religious leaders, which can be measured by listening to sermons at mosques and to important Shiite and Sunni leaders, and the amount of influence that moderate political and religious figures have over the population. The other main variables are assassinations and other especially provocative sectarian attacks, as well as “spontaneous mass civil conflict.”

A number of secondary indicators are also taken into account, including activity by militias, problems with ineffective police, the ability of Iraqi officials to govern effectively, the number of civilians who have been forced to move by sectarian violence, the willingness of Iraqi security forces to follow orders, and the degree to which the Iraqi Kurds are pressing for independence from the central government.

These factors are evaluated to create the index of civil strife, which has registered a steady worsening for months. “Ever since the February attack on the Shiite mosque in Samarra, it has been closer to the chaos side than the peace side,” said a Central Command official who asked not to be identified because he was talking about classified information.

In the Oct. 18 brief, the index moved still another notch toward “chaos.” That briefing was prepared three days before General Abizaid met in Washington with President Bush, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to take stock of the situation in Iraq.

A spokesman for the Central Command declined to comment on the index or other information in the slide. “We don’t comment on secret material,” the spokesman said.

One significant factor in the military’s decision to move the scale toward “chaos” was the expanding activity by militias.

Another reason was the limitations of Iraqi government security forces, which despite years of training and equipping by the United States, are either ineffective or, in some cases, infiltrated by the very militias they are supposed to be combating. The slide notes that “ineffectual” Iraqi police forces have been a significant problem, and cites as a concern sectarian conflicts between Iraqi security forces.

Other significant factors are in the political realm. The slide notes that Iraq’s political and religious leaders have lost some of their moderating influence over their constituents or adherents.

Notably, the slide also cites difficulties that the new Iraqi administration has experienced in “governance.” That appears to be shorthand for the frustration felt by American military officers about the Iraqi government’s delays in bringing about a genuine political reconciliation between Shiites and Sunnis. It also appears to apply to the lack of reconstruction programs to restore essential services and the dearth of job creation efforts to give young Iraqis an alternative to joining militias, as well as the absence of firm action against militias.

The slide lists other factors that are described as important but less significant. They include efforts by Iran and Syria to enable violence by militias and insurgent groups and the interest by many Kurds in achieving independence. The slide describes violence motivated by sectarian differences as having moved into a “critical” phase.

The chart does note some positive developments. Specifically, it notes that “hostile rhetoric” by political and religious leaders has not increased. It also notes that Iraqi security forces are refusing less often than in the past to take orders from the central government and that there has been a drop-off in mass desertions.

Still, for a military culture that thrives on PowerPoint briefings, the shifting index was seen by some officials as a stark warning about the difficult course of events in Iraq, and mirrored growing concern by some military officers. by some military officers.

 

[iagrdshaka 5,000+ posts]

Iraq's new government is just as corrupt as the last one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

nice progress......

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

I tell you what. If you dont like how the country is being ran state your principals and run for office.

I'll vote for you.

 

[iagrdshaka 5,000+ posts]

I tell you what. If you dont like how the country is being ran state your principals and run for office.
I'll vote for you.

you have to be 18 to vote //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

lolz ive done way to many criminal things. I can just imagine the attack ads (most probably being true) //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[angrytrucker78 10+ year member]

I tell you what. If you dont like how the country is being ran state your principals and run for office.
I'll vote for you.

I'm not old enough to run for President. When I do, you'll know it

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

stay the course! they hate us for our freedom!!

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif ill be 18 long before the next presidential election //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Because the people that arent staying in line are the ones we where tyring to get rid of.
I find it really funny some people beleive the liberal media BS that everyone over there is in constant riot mode because we are there.

Did you all forget how happy everyone was when they pulled down the statue of him?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif pwned! even the pentagon says its chaos!

i find it really funny when people believe the fox news media bias!

 

[angrytrucker78 10+ year member]

Oh well, like what was said already, we're there now, nothing we can do about it.

All I'm saying is, every Iraqi citizen isn't worth one of our servicemen to me. And we've lost well over 2000 of them.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Read what they said carefully.

The whole country is NOT in chaos.