Ported + Cabin Gain = Good SQ?

[Mdjai 10+ year member]

I am currently trying to decide between two IDMAX 10's and an ED 15ov.2, and i want the best sound quality i can get, but I also would like my music plenty loud too.

I like alwayz having more than enough volume on hand, just incase. Ya never know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Now....i know that ported setups will more than likely be louder than a sealed setup, but I want LOTS of SQ. I would LOVE to go ported and have extra/spare volume on hand for whenever i need. Plus the increased efficiency is good too.

The Question(s):

With a Ported setup, for whichever setup i choose, is it possible to have a GREAT sounding subwoofer without a big peak with a ported enclosure?

Because I know there is a peak somewhere around the tunning frequency PLUS the cabin gain. That seems like it would cause a very non-flat response.

But if its possible, how do I go about doing it?

Because I would LOVE to have the extra volume of a Ported setup if i can also have a fairly Flat Response.

Your help will be appreciated //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Click to read more...

 

[reed dollaz 10+ year member]

you can get loud with sealed boxes. trust me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif i tested my two sw8102 eclipses off of a 1200.1 viper (testing it before i bought it). a friend of mine works at an audio shop, so he let me test it out first. im running .75 cubes per chamber, and off of music, at the headrest, i was pulling 138-140's off of 1,100wrms and it sounded very good doing it.

 

[Mdjai 10+ year member]

you can get loud with sealed boxes. trust me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif i tested my two sw8102 eclipses off of a 1200.1 viper (testing it before i bought it). a friend of mine works at an audio shop, so he let me test it out first. im running .75 cubes per chamber, and off of music, at the headrest, i was pulling 138-140's off of 1,100wrms and it sounded very good doing it.

DAYUM!

You hit 140 with just TWO Eclipse Aluminum 10's SEALED? WOW. Well then sheeeeit, i wonder what my two IDMAX 10's can do, lol.

I'm still curious about having a ported setup without a big hump in my bass response though.

Hey, thanx for your response

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

DAYUM!
You hit 140 with just TWO Eclipse Aluminum 10's SEALED? WOW. Well then sheeeeit, i wonder what my two IDMAX 10's can do, lol.

I'm still curious about having a ported setup without a big hump in my bass response though.

Hey, thanx for your response

i have a 12" RE HC (not longer in production), considered a low end monster, im running it in 3.6@29hz, love it BUT wanted to know what it could do sealed.

modeled it up against JLs 12w6v2 (a top sq sub) using Bass Box Pro, both in optimum sealed enclosures, the 2 looked almost identical

put it in my car... fukin sucked is all i got to say, yeah it had killer sq, but dam, waste of money going sealed

no way the ported setup had crappy sq either

when i listen to Bass Mekanik in my friends car (sealed setup), when the bass drops, it fades out, in my car, it gets louder as the bass drops, gives me the chills //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blush.gif.99bc659ee2012b7d826165e26fb5eebe.gif

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

a nice large ported box for an idmax should give a fairly flat response. I currently have a 12" idmax in a 2.7 cubes ported box and it's sounding great and getting plenty loud. I have to tone it down to get it leveled w/ my front stage, which consists of horns and 8"s... for reference. If you can fit both of your 10" maxes ported, i would suggest going that route. If you decide to go w/ the eD, i may be interested in buying one of your 10"s //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

No reason that you have to have a peak in the response near tuning. If you do, either the box is too big, the tuning too high or both. That doesn't mean that the transient response will be good or the tonality correct (that's going to bepend on the sub itself usually), but there is no reason the response should have a peak. Instead what you typically get with a flat ported box is a steady rise as the frequency gets lower until you get to tuning and then it begins to roll off slightly. The rate of rolloff is slowed by the cabin gain and the rise in response in the lower freqs is caused by the cabin gain. If done correctly, it all blends together nicely and sounds correct.

 

[Mdjai 10+ year member]

a nice large ported box for an idmax should give a fairly flat response. I currently have a 12" idmax in a 2.7 cubes ported box and it's sounding great and getting plenty loud. I have to tone it down to get it leveled w/ my front stage, which consists of horns and 8"s... for reference. If you can fit both of your 10" maxes ported, i would suggest going that route. If you decide to go w/ the eD, i may be interested in buying one of your 10"s //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

i think i can fit both 10's ported in my car, which is what i'd like to do if it will sound right. Hmmm, your frontstage sounds sweet man //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I have like 3 spare ED 8Ks, 2 of which Ii would like to use like that, but i wouldnt know where to fit them upfront

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif

 

[Mdjai 10+ year member]

No reason that you have to have a peak in the response near tuning. If you do, either the box is too big, the tuning too high or both. That doesn't mean that the transient response will be good or the tonality correct (that's going to bepend on the sub itself usually), but there is no reason the response should have a peak. Instead what you typically get with a flat ported box is a steady rise as the frequency gets lower until you get to tuning and then it begins to roll off slightly. The rate of rolloff is slowed by the cabin gain and the rise in response in the lower freqs is caused by the cabin gain. If done correctly, it all blends together nicely and sounds correct.

Hey there holotaxi //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Well i used WinISD Pro and looked at the Transfer Function Magnitude. The sealed enclosure they recommend had a smooth roll-off with no humps. And now that I look again the ported box it recommends has a flat response, but only if I tune it between 23.5-25hz. That's pretty low, but it looked flat.

But here is the thing. I was under the impression that usually a properly designed Sealed enclosure would start rolling off where the cabin gain starts boosting, which makes for a very nice flat response. But it looks like in the ported box it is still flat where the cabin gain will be boosting, which would seem to me to cause a hump in the response.

According to WinISD Pro: Sealed it is down 3db @ 45.28hz

Ported at 25hz it is down 3db @ 25.76hz

And the ID website has a graph of in-car response which also shows a HuMp in the response that is a nice bit higher than the sealed.

Here is the link: http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/pdf/IDMAX10%20V3%20D4%20spec.pdf

Btw, helotaxi...i REALLY do want to go ported and enjoy the extra efficiency and extra volume..its just the big hump that is making me second guess that idea.

It's looking like the extra volume is the hump. If I am wrong please forgive me, bcuz I am not very learned on this particular topic, which i why I am asking alot of questions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

One last thing helotaxi.... i plan on crossing them over @80hz... and I would like to know if in the ported enclosure the upper bass around 70-80hz will sound just as good as it would sealed witha QTC of about .85

your response will be appreciated, just like your first one, thanx //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Yes, the cabin gain will cause a hump in the response in-car. That hump pretty well aligns with the roll off in the sensitivity of your ears. The sound can end up sounding flat. It won't sound exaggerated with a box that is flat in large space. Most people don't build a box with a flat response though, and the result is really exaggerated bass.

The "punch" of the sealed box with a .85 Q is a hump in the large space response of the sealed setup. You can't categorically say that the ported setup will sound better or worse than the sealed setup.

 

[Mdjai 10+ year member]

Yes, the cabin gain will cause a hump in the response in-car. That hump pretty well aligns with the roll off in the sensitivity of your ears. The sound can end up sounding flat. It won't sound exaggerated with a box that is flat in large space. Most people don't build a box with a flat response though, and the result is really exaggerated bass.
The "punch" of the sealed box with a .85 Q is a hump in the large space response of the sealed setup. You can't categorically say that the ported setup will sound better or worse than the sealed setup.

Thanx...

Now what do you think about having to tune @25hz?

Thats pretty low, but its what ID recommends, and pretty much what WinISD Pro recommends to have the flatest response.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Thanx...
Now what do you think about having to tune @25hz?

Thats pretty low, but its what ID recommends, and pretty much what WinISD Pro recommends to have the flatest response.

ID does not recommend tuning to 25hz, that's too low. The lowest Ive ever seen ID recommend tuning, on an IDMax 12, was 28hz.

IM not following your question well. You seem to understand how tuning works, and transfer function, yet when you discuss amting the two together you seem to think they will work against each other to create a flat response. Just the opposite is true, they work together to create a large spike in output.

 

[Mdjai 10+ year member]

ID does not recommend tuning to 25hz, that's too low.

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/pdf/...0D4%20spec.pdf //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Mdjai 10+ year member]

IM not following your question well. You seem to understand how tuning works, and transfer function, yet when you discuss amting the two together you seem to think they will work against each other to create a flat response. Just the opposite is true, they work together to create a large spike in output.

Wow, i dont know how you got that, lol.

My whole reason for my conversation with helotaxi was because i thought JUST THAT, that cabin gain and the tuning would cause a hump. Maybe you skimmed through it too fast //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/pdf/...0D4%20spec.pdf //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The 404 you linked to doesn't recomend it either //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Wow, i dont know how you got that, lol.My whole reason for my conversation with helotaxi was because i thought JUST THAT, that cabin gain and the tuning would cause a hump. Maybe you skimmed through it too fast //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I got that from the wording of your title. It clearly appears as though you were considering that. If not, I misunderstoodd you.

As for the recommended tuning, your link doesn't work. But here's a link showing their recommendations for a 12... http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/spec.php?type=encspec&id=IDMAX12D2%20V.3

It clearly shows recommended tuning points of 32hz, 30hz, and 28hz for the largest and lowest recommendation. And that's for the 12. The links to the recommendations on the 10's doesn't seem to be working, but I find it hard to believe they recommend even lower tuning for them. If anything, it would be higher.