optimum signal source

[cmc#5]

I've just gotten a 2015 Mustang and I want to do a stereo upgrade. I sat in a car with the OE Shaker (Mustang's top audio setup) and decided I could do a lot better for less than the $1,500 it costs. Ok, technically that 1,500 includes a few other items in the option package but I didnt care for them either.

Anyway, first thing first...where to get the signal. I keep reading car forums where guys are taking the rear speaker signal into LOCs, then into amps, then into fronts, rears, and subs. I have to believe that is the least optimum as far as SQ goes, though I'm sure its the easiest.

Next option is taking the signals after the factory amp and into a device like an LC7i or a cleansweep then to the amp(s) then to the speakers. Another option is taking the signals before the OE amp.

My question then is...is that last option (take the four speaker signals from the HU, prior to the OE amp) my best bet? Below are two wiring diagram snippets I've found. I'm a bit worried that those snippets dont show the whole picture and that other sound making devices on the car (instrument warnings, nav commands, etc. somehow send a signal to the amp not through the HU and therefore I'd lose them.

View attachment 26551337View attachment 26551338

Click to read more...

 

[Jepalan]

What is your budget? What all are you looking to upgrade? All speakers? Sub? Amps? Headunit?

I do not have direct experience with your car, but it looks like it has active noise cancellation. In order to keep the factory HU and add amps you will have to figure out how to disable the active noise cancellation. If keeping the HU, I would try pulling a full range stereo signal from one of the front speaker outputs of the factory amp and connect it to a JBL MS-8. Then use the MS-8 in an active configuration with a pair of front tweets (probably a-pillars), front mid-bass, a pair of rears, & a sub. You can just amp the sub and let the MS-8 drive the speakers, or amp everything.

I'm sure you will get a lot of other ideas.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Second the jbl ms8 idea, a lot better than line out convertors or cleansweeps. Second would be acoustical door treatments. Then an addition of a sub. These alone should beat out the oe shaker system.

 

[cmc#5]

I am definitely keeping the HU, but want to upgrade everything after that. I am still validating but I am fairly sure that all of that active noise cancellation stuff that shows up in those diagrams is only in effect on the new ecoboost mustangs and mine is the v8. Budget wise...I'd like to stay under a grand but willing to spend more if justified. Thats hardware cost as I'll do the labor. I'm a gearhead, not an audiophile so I dont need to get too sophisticated but I do want a system that can rock.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I have sync and so far the best cost effective route is looking to be the MS-8 with a small mono for a small sub.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I am definitely keeping the HU, but want to upgrade everything after that. I am still validating but I am fairly sure that all of that active noise cancellation stuff that shows up in those diagrams is only in effect on the new ecoboost mustangs and mine is the v8. Budget wise...I'd like to stay under a grand but willing to spend more if justified. Thats hardware cost as I'll do the labor. I'm a gearhead, not an audiophile so I dont need to get too sophisticated but I do want a system that can rock.

MS-8 | Car Audio DSP, Powered Digital Sound Processor | JBL US

Its a Factory integration digital signal processor with logic 7 surround sound and 31 bit DACs and has a built in amp for 8 speakers, Your factory speakers will be a completely different animal once this DSP is added. No need to change out any speakers, just properly sound deaden your doors and turn it into a proper speaker enclosure and those stock speakers will sound way better. If you are lazy, there is an auto configuration feature on it.

Here's a long thread about how to get professional sound out of your car speakers like an acoustical engineer.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/car-audio-build-logs-cars-trucks-suvs/536049-2001-accord-ex-sedan-its-long.html

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

JL Cleansweep's purpose is to "flatten" the EQ curve that is present in the factory audio electronics. You can add a second Cleansweep device to sum channels if needed, but JL does not sell a DSP that also lets you set your own curve. To get a fun sounding car we need to bump up the bass, bring it down to flat around 150-200 Hz, then slope the treble down to take the edge off.

If you are lazy, there is an auto configuration feature on it.

Please don't put it that way. I don't know every little intricacy about how MS-8 tunes itself, but putting a laptop in front of an amateur to tune a DSP that is equally as powerful as MS-8 is not always the superior option, and it's not because one is lazy. I would argue that would be a disaster, as you know people generally have a lot of trouble understanding how to choose crossovers and slopes, let alone how to manage time alignment and potentially over 100 graphic EQ bands. Or parametric EQ? Forget about it. It's information overload.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

for anyone who doesn't feel like spending 20-40+ hours manually tuning a car, the auto configuration using the biaural mics with the MS-8 is a great alternative and one that yields good results. just avoid blocking the door speaker with your knee during tuning.

what makes the MS-8, Imprint, Audyssey, and other auto-tuning features a powerful tool is the ability to process impulse responses. an impulse response is 100x more useful than pink noise on an RTA.

 

[cmc#5]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. It feels like we've strayed a bit from my original question though, which was am I better off getting signal directly from a 2015 Ford Sync HU or from the OE amp. I suppose the answer depends on what I'm connecting it to. Assuming we're connecting to an MS-8 does it matter? If connecting to an amp with high and low level inputs would connecting directly to this HU work without additional signal processing (as in, all crossing and bass blocking is done in the amp) but not sound as good or be as flexible as a setup with a DSP?

 

[Dmac1991]

idk if Ford shares the same headunit throughout its lineup but the 2012 Ford Sync with My Touch headunit distorts at 15/30 and the wave just gets hella square at 16 and gets worse from there. I'd tap the signal from the OE amp. And as soon as a dash kit comes out for the new Stang, get it lol

 

[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

I am definitely keeping the HU, but want to upgrade everything after that. I am still validating but I am fairly sure that all of that active noise cancellation stuff that shows up in those diagrams is only in effect on the new ecoboost mustangs and mine is the v8. Budget wise...I'd like to stay under a grand but willing to spend more if justified. Thats hardware cost as I'll do the labor. I'm a gearhead, not an audiophile so I dont need to get too sophisticated but I do want a system that can rock.

Get the Maestro kit and get a Kenwood dd. You'll be way more happy at the end of the day

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

idk if Ford shares the same headunit throughout its lineup but the 2012 Ford Sync with My Touch headunit distorts at 15/30 and the wave just gets hella square at 16 and gets worse from there. I'd tap the signal from the OE amp. And as soon as a dash kit comes out for the new Stang, get it lol

They changed in 13 I think. Mine is clean up to 25/30

 

---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------

 

Get the Maestro kit and get a Kenwood dd. You'll be way more happy at the end of the day

You can't change the HU in them. It controls way to much stuff

 

[Dmac1991]

They changed in 13 I think. Mine is clean up to 25/30 

---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------

 

You can't change the HU in them. It controls way to much stuff

lucky mofo

friend of mines has a 14 Escape and his distorts at 15/30 aswell

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. It feels like we've strayed a bit from my original question though, which was am I better off getting signal directly from a 2015 Ford Sync HU or from the OE amp. I suppose the answer depends on what I'm connecting it to. Assuming we're connecting to an MS-8 does it matter? If connecting to an amp with high and low level inputs would connecting directly to this HU work without additional signal processing (as in, all crossing and bass blocking is done in the amp) but not sound as good or be as flexible as a setup with a DSP?

You want to bypass any factory amps. The processing power of the head unit is pretty godawful and is skewed, no imaging or time alignment, no proper parametric EQ, no nothing. If you have the money, you can buy an amp with a built in DSP but thats in the thousands. Other option will give your speakers will have more power, it'll sound better then stock, but if you do a heads up comparison between a car with a properly tuned DSP vs a car with an LOC and amp, assuming each car has been sound dampened, The DSP car will outright crush the competition in terms of sound quality by far.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

You want to bypass any factory amps. The processing power of the head unit is pretty godawful and is skewed, no imaging or time alignment, no proper parametric EQ, no nothing. If you have the money, you can buy an amp with a built in DSP but thats in the thousands. Other option will give your speakers will have more power, it'll sound better then stock, but if you do a heads up comparison between a car with a properly tuned DSP vs a car with an LOC and amp, assuming each car has been sound dampened, The DSP car will outright crush the competition in terms of sound quality by far.

They actually do have TA and it's not terrible.