Okay. Fine Zane. Point Taken. Would you mind answering a couple other questions???

[ArcaneParadise 10+ year member]

Okay. Fine. If you say the JL's are better. Then okay. By going off the specs I still think that the Kicker would "Kick" JL's butt. (Get it? =D) Kicker has 1. More cone area (And no it is not just for getting lower frequencies, it moves more air as well. I am sure you knew that but you failed to mention it in the previous post.) and 2. Greater RMS (Even if JL under rated their products significantly). Those are my two FACTS. Now by going by what I would THINK: 1. Even though the JL Audio has a larger XMax the Kicker has a larger VMax which is much more important. Even if you have a 10 Ft. XMax but you have a small cone, you will not do much or anything. 2. I am making an educated guess on this one but I believe that the L7 also has a lower frequency response than the JL's (Very cool for rocking the car back and forth). So far as SQ the new 2002 L7 has an aluminum basket and a titanium cone. Box built correctly, I do not think you will lose many SQ competitions either. All you really said last time is that the JL has more XMax and their RMS is underrated. That does not really mean much at all. 1. XMax does not mean jack compared to VMax and 2. How much is it underrated? So pretty much. Greater Cone Area + Greater VMax + Greater RMS = Louder Speaker and Titanium Cone = Better Sound Quality. So There!!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I hope I do not appear as a jerk because I respect you (Zane) oever anyone else on this Forum and I am sure I am not the only one. I am just trying to figure out why you think that a JL will beat a Kicker L7.

Also...

My school has this thing called the Battle of the Boom where one day at lunch everyone that wants to brings their car out with the good sound system and blasts. The judges are the school faculty so you they are just going by ear and feel. This past year I have been building up my system and please be so kind as to tell me how I compare with some of the top setups I know of in the school by looking below.

Me = 1999 Dodge Ram Quad Cab

HU = Pioneer DEH-6300

Component Amp = RF Punch 200.4

Component System = Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 &

Sub Amps = 2 RF BD1000.1

Subs = 2 2002 15" Kicker Solo-Baric L7 (Ported 5 FT^3 Boxes)

So far as the other two guys I only know their subs. I do not know the amps but if you could make a rough guesstimate as to how they compare I would be very thankful.

#1 Person = Chevy Tahoe

3 JL 12W3

#2 Person = 4 12" Infinity Perfects

I probably could not take the Infinity Perfects on by shear number but since they are built primarily for SQ I think I may have a fighting chance, although they do pack a pretty good punch.

And... You are probably going to disagree on this one but I think I could take on the JL guy. Judgine by total VMax and RMS (I believe each 12W3 has somewhere around 300RMS. And they would have to be underrated by about 225% in order to match up with me in only RMS.) I think I could take him down. Also I have a much smaller cabin space than either of them so I might gain 2 or 3 more DBs. Well... I sure hope after spending 45 minutes on this I can get a good response from you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Thanks for reading.

Click to read more...

 

[RangerMan Premium Member]

Spec don't always mean everything, sometimes you just have to go by ear. As for the school competition, I think that that is an awesome idea and more schools should do things like this. If I were you then I would get another amp to power the subs and maybe it will push them harder. Think about an MTX 81000D or a JBL 1200.1. Both are great amps at good prices.

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

i disagree that because you have more xmas and less cone that it don't mean anything. the idea is to move air, correct? ok, then xmas moves air as well as cone area.example: you have a 15" woofer w/xmas of say .05": i have a 10" woofer but the xmas 1.25"(just an example). so your woofer is apx 1.5 times larger in cone area, yet mine has a little over twice the xmas. in theory i am moving as much air just not reproducing the lower freqs as well. is that not why a 8" sub has to move 2/3 farther to move the same amount as a 12"? IMO xmas has much to do with it as cone area.

vmax? the amount a sub moves into the basket? if that is correct, then wouldn't box design have something to do with how well that adds to the system?

power handling: while your correct as to the jl having to be way underrated to compete with your L7's in that department, which is the most efficient sub? if the jl has a higher sensitivity rating then it wouldn't need all the power to get as loud. that is something you haven't added to the equation.

if i'm wrong about any of the above, feel free to correct me. i can't do anything but learn!!

one other quick note... good luck at your school soundoff. you should compete pretty well

 

[ArcaneParadise 10+ year member]

Well... In a small way you were incorrect about what you said. A 15 inch cone (In my case square) then it will have a LOT more cone area because 1" more added to 10" is a lot more area than 1" added to 9" because the area increases with circumference (You should have learned that in Geometry!!!). So, by doing the math on a square cone which is 15" x 15" then you get 225 IN^2 of total cone area. It might be a little less from the basket but it will also be less for a 10. Okay. Now to figure out the area of your 10". The formula is (PIE)R^2. So the fomula for you is (3.14) x 6^2. You have 113.4IN^2 total cone area. That means I have appoximately twice your cone area. Now I am not sure if your 1.5 Inch XMax is one-way or both ways (If one way that would be a site to see) I think you have an Eclipse subwoofer. And I think that XMax is both ways because I really do not think that 1.5 inches is possible, if so cool for you. But anyways lets say it is 1 way. That would divide your XMax in half (0.75 Inches) as compared to my (0.61 Inches) Since my total cone area is double yours I will have more VMax than you in the end. (That is unless you have a 1.5Inch one way excursion. If you cannot find it out simply go to your system and try to measure it with your system at full, a ruler, and one eye closed, measure how far it goes out approx. You should be able to tell the difference between 1.5Inch and 0.75 inches. Bye.

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

sorry, itis been 12 years since high school!!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

anyway, your correct about the area of a circle compared to a square. i forgot my math. as far as the xmas goes, i was just using it(1.25) as an example. i, personally, have 2 8" hx2's with a xmas of .55". i was just trying to say that xmas DOES have something to do with moving air. a 15" with .68" of xmas and a area of 176.625 will move as much air (close enough not to tell anyway,IMO ,as a 15" with a xmas 0f .61 and a area of 225". again the x-factor is how efficient the speakers are. it seems that the jl and L7 are compareable in almost every catagory EXCEPT sensitivity, where the jl wins.

in the end, i think it's just going to be a matter of preferance to name brand. the jl wSeries and kicker L7 are both great speakers in the right enviroment. IMO, the kicker just don't have a clear advantage anywhere except rms RATING.

b4 you say that the 225 is a bunch bigger than the 176 (i know it is) it only works out to a extra 7" square or 4" round. effectively, a mid-bass.

lastly, if it's so "hip to be square", why are so many going back to following the "circle of life"?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif LOL

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

just re-read your original post here, break out your calculator!!

"#1 Person = Chevy Tahoe

3 JL 12W3

#2 Person = 4 12" Infinity Perfects"

okay, now figure the area of subs your opponets have:

#1 person= has a total of 339"^2 worth of subs

#2 person= has a total of 452"^2 worth of subs

arcane paradise= has a total of 450"^2 worth of subs

so if cone area is all that moves air, you are in there!

no disrespect intended,man, i just wanted you to see that.

 

[ArcaneParadise 10+ year member]

No disrespect taken. From now on I will go by pure factual information. Cannot beat the facts! And thanks for the encouragement so far as the school competition. Check my next post for a head to head on the Kicker VS. L7.