**Official NBA thread**

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

I could care less what the media says, I dont get my info from one source...Orlando got ***** by Detroit? how the hell is that? it was a S&T Hill was leaving for Orlando no matter what the only reason the S&T was pulled off was so that Orlando could sign Hill for 6 years instead of 5...yea it sucked to lose Wallace, but Chucky Atkins was not missed, and Hill was supposed to be coming back, any team in the league would have done that deal at that time...

my god man, get your effing facts straight...where do you get your information? holy christ homie...

Orlando also made out fine in the Darko deal, until the Rashard thing came about, Darko turned out to be a bust and Arroyo is meh...but again, any team would have made that deal, Kelvin Cato+1st rounder for Darko+Arroyo...c'mon man...no one got *****...Orlando turned Darko in Rashard's 6th year...

as fro your clock statement, IDK what you are referring to specifically, but I KNOW the facts...basketball is something I pay very much attention to as a stat ***** and a capologist...I follow it all...I know the clock operators in the playoffs are from other teams not in the playoff race...I dont care what the sentinel says, you cant speak for the team and for the fan base because of what a newspaper says...

if you want a real paper to read for Orlando info, FloridaToday...

 

[bigbangtheory 5,000+ posts]

Ho Snaps! Cleveland won again. I mean what is this shit with Boston not winning a road game in the playoffs as of yet? They had the best road record in the league. I mean, I am glad we won, but just weird to see them not win one on the road.

LeBron looked a little better tonight, but still not himself. And I don't know WTF he is talking about his shots are right on, just not going in. He must be high or something or blind, one of the two. His shots are wayyyyyyyyyy off in this series. He says he just needs to shoot out of it. I guess so bud.........I guess so.

Back to Boston where we will lose, then to Cleveland where we will win and then back there where we will lose. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

duncan had a 102 fever first two games...pretty classy of him not to blame it on that. they showed he doctors orders on fox sports early in the day on sunday. once again, who will win on the road?

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

I would consider Ben Wallace, 4 time defensive player of the year, all-star and NBA champion in exchange for Hill, damaged goods, to be a good deal for Detroit. I know it was a sign and trade and Dumars took advantage of Orlando. Also the first rounder Detroit got for Darko turned into Rodney Stuckey, plus they dumped the salary of Darko and Arroyo, so I would take Stuckey over Arroyo, and enjoy the cap space left from getting rid of both.
All the Orlando press is *****ing that Detroit had some conspiracy, or got a hometown advantage by the clock operator. One even said it was a Mickey Mouse operation, when in fact, the clock operator was from Minnesota and has no affiliation with Orlando or Detroit.

yea, Ben Wallace turned out to be a very good player, but at the time of the deal Wallace was nothing and Hill was Grant Hill, arguably the best player in all of basketball at the time, even with the ankle injury. He wasnt considered damaged goods at that time, the ankle injury was waived off as a standard injury and the Detroit medical team, the Orlando medical team and a third party Dr all agreed it would be fine. No one at that time knew that the heel bone was going to shift like it did later on. So there again, any team in the league would have made that deal at that time in order to sign Grant Hill...Detroit didn't **** Orlando, Hill was going to Orlando no matter what, Wallace and Atkins were only used as incentives for Detroit to S&T...so yea, Hill didn't work out, it sucked, but it happens all the time in the NBA...and Hill turned into Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis so..no big deal...

um they didnt really "dump" much salary there holmes, they lost Arroyo's but picked up Cato's contract, who even though was expiring was still much larger than Darko, plus they would have still of been paying his rookie extension and on top of that considering that they had Darko's bird rights they could have signed him to whatever offer they wanted and not had the inflated amount count against the cap...so I fail to see where anyone got the upper hand on this so called salary raping you are claiming...

agreed the first round pick turned into Stuckey, good for Detroit...not sure if Orlando would have drafted him or not at that position, for some reason Crittenton seems like more of an Orlando target...

why do you care so much what the press says? i dont base anything off of that, I watch the games...it's the playoffs, teams are emotional and heated, it's not like Detroit isnt doing the same thing...

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

duncan had a 102 fever first two games...pretty classy of him not to blame it on that. they showed he doctors orders on fox sports early in the day on sunday. once again, who will win on the road?

I have been impressed how they have come back and looked good although I knew better than to count them out in the first place. Im still pissed the lakers lost both in utah though.

Seems nobody in the west can win on the road in this round.

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

That is exactly why Detroit acquired Cato was because of his big expiring contract. Arroyo is overpaid as a backup, mediocre PG. Darko still was owed a lot, and they had to match salaries so that is why Cato's expiring contract came to Detroit in order to free cap space to sign Ben Wallace, especially since Bill Davidson does not like to pay the luxury tax.
I hate to tell you, but Rashard Lewis is not a 118 million dollar player. I guess in your logic of signing a huge bust that eventually led to you signing another huge contract to player not work the money is a good thing, then so be it I guess.

Arroyo is "overpaid" based on production but for his position and his veteran ability, he's pretty much right there financially, but the deal was short term (expires this year) and serviceable, so there is no problem there...

Cato had a nice expiring, yes that is why he was grouped into the deal for Darko. Orlando Acquired Darko because he was a 7', powerful shot blocker who could rebound and had mounds of upside. Orlando got immediate production from him in their front line because they had the minutes to dedicate to him. Darko did a fine job while in Orlando. Orlando would have re-signed him had he of not let his agent talk him into believing that Orlando was trying to screw him...luckily we didnt, because he's more of a bust now than ever...

So to re-cap for you, since you dont seem to grasp the big paragraphs, Darko and Arroyo filled needs at the time and only cost Orlando Stuckey...we can live with that...

Darko still was owed a lot

no he wasn't, he was still rookie scale and an exercised option, and again, bird rights so no luxury tax on Darko's salary...

and they had to match salaries so that is why Cato's expiring contract came to Detroit

yea, I fully understand trades...

I don't understand this

in order to free cap space to sign Ben Wallace, especially since Bill Davidson does not like to pay the luxury tax.

Cato's expiring wasn't used to sign Ben Wallace, Ben Wallace was a FA at the end of the season and signed with Chicago...and again, Darko's salary would not count against the luxury tax...

I hate to tell you, but Rashard Lewis is not a 118 million dollar player. I guess in your logic of signing a huge bust that eventually led to you signing another huge contract to player not work the money is a good thing, then so be it I guess.

ok, thanks...no one is worth 118 million, but I dont pay it, so I dont give a shit...ok, it limits Orlando slightly over the next few seasons, but with the MLE, VLE, draft picks and trades, we'll be ok...

Orlando didnt sign Darko, Detroit did, Orlando acquired Darko, for a whole season, and renounced his rights to sign Rashard, that's not my logic, that's fact...

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

Detroit free the cap space in order to make Ben Wallace an offer. Wallace said he would resign with Detroit, that he liked the team and he would do it for a fair amount. Dumars agreed to make him the highest paid Piston in terms on annual salary. Dumars held up his end of the deal, Ben Wallace left Detroit for more money. At the time the Pistons didn't know Ben Wallace was going to renig and go to Chicago.
Also Orlando could not have signed Rashard without losing Grant Hill's contract, so as soon as they get cap relief from Grant Hill, they go and make another dumb signing.

Also Darko was a bust before he got to Orlando.

Dumars said he would not pay Ben Wallace the money he was looking for at the end of the year...Cato was brought in to free up money, but Darko was not shipped out with the intentions of clearing cap space to re-sign Wallace...

Agreed Wallace gave indications that he would be back in Detroit, but he wanted the major payday and that is why he went to Detroit...Dumars refused to pay that money...

What is your point with the Grant Hill/Rashard Lewis thing? yes, Hill's contract expired and made room for Rashard...

Darko was a bust when Dumars selected him over Carmelo...but, just like Kwame Brown was the consensus 1st overall pick in 2k, Darko was the consensus 2nd pick in that draft, many other teams would have made the same mistake...Darko's only problem is his attitude and willingness to show heart, because he has the skill and the physical abilities to be an extremely dominate player, he has shown that time and time again, but he refuses to work with the team at full clip, he refuses to quit smoking, he refuses to pay attention...he's just a head case...but again, he gave Orlando 82 games of serviceable big man minutes...no complaints there...

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

teams overpay for players every season, and it's only getting worse, Gerald Wallace got 56 million last year, everyone talking about Rashard's contract, what about that deal? Hell even Billups got overpaid. in 5 years, do you think he'll be producing the same? and worth 14 million? no probably not...but you have to lock him up and keep him happy...that's the way it is now a days, any player who has come up for contract over the last 3 seasons and from here on out are getting overpaid...Orlando needed another big name player, they got it, they overpaid, but they got it...moving on...

 

[MTXman 10+ year member]

Yeah what's wrong with overpaying for a player?

Rashard's been more than serviceable this season, and a perfect fit for our offense. I was just going to mention the Gerald Wallace deal.. I'd say we got better performance/per dollar than that deal. Gotta settle the player down, keep him wanting to be there.. no matter the price.

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

Yeah what's wrong with overpaying for a player?


Rashard's been more than serviceable this season, and a perfect fit for our offense. I was just going to mention the Gerald Wallace deal.. I'd say we got better performance/per dollar than that deal. Gotta settle the player down, keep him wanting to be there.. no matter the price.

well overpaying sucks, if it's done wrong and for the wrong guy...it can effect the future of a team big time...this particular deal will only hurt in signing free agents for the next 2 seasons, which I dont think Orlando will be looking to do really...

they have their core of players (Dwight, Rashard and Nelson) locked up until 2013 and they will certainly offer Turkolglu a nice deal through that time as well, and considering we have his bird rights, it will not effect us in the luxury if we offer him a competitive offer...so 4 players playing together for the next 5 years? excellent...

still under the cap with the full MLE, VLE and draft picks? sounds good...

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

Paying Rashard the same amount as Kobe is ridiculous. Billups signed a 4 year 46 million dollar deal. He's a big body PG who relies more on his smarts then his physical ability. Generally players of Billups mold, have more longevity then quicker smaller guards.

sorry, yet again your facts are off, Billups signed a 5 year $60 million dollar deal...and tell yourself all the typical this and that you want, facts are facts and he is 32, and will be 37 in his last year of that deal...Sam Cassell is 38 and is considered pretty **** old...

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

no, the deal is still 5 years 60 million, if you are going to get specific than you need to know how it works...he didn't sign a 4 year 46 million deal, the paper he inked is 5 years, 60 million, the team has the option to cancel the 5th year, thats how contract options work...the option counts against the contract, therefore the deal is 5 years 60 million...

Billups will be 32 when the 08/09 season starts in October, he will be roughly 36 years and 8 months old when his deal expires...if you want to be technical...

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

regardless of the option, he signed a 5 year deal...his obligation is for 5 years...end of story...if the team wants to decline the option and renounce their rights, then it's a whole different scenario...you said he signed a 4 year deal...no, HE signed a 5 year deal...the team has the option, if you wanted to articulate that, you should have said, the TEAM signed him to a 4 year deal...that would make more sense...

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

Dwight Howard's final numbers against Detroit were 15.5 PPG and 12.5 RPG. Not exactly dominating outrageously like I think it was put.

well im not sure who you are quoting, because I know i never said that...not against the Pistons...also your math is off, he averaged 15.2PPG/13.4RPG/3BPG...

good work by the Pistons...wasnt really that hard with the Magic having 21 turnovers...I'm not sure what is more impressive, Detroit forcing that many turnovers or Orlando still being in the game at the end with that many turnovers...still a great season for the Magic...future looking bright...just gotta build...

good luck Pistons...

 

[rtillaree 10+ year member]

must have been MTXman....yea, you gotta do the math yourself if you're going to quote stats my friend...