Not a fair bailout for all?

Great so the only way for us to be better is to become China or Mexico.
Sad but I don't see us competitive unless we come closer to production/labor costs in China and Mexico. Especially Mexico as they are closer physically so shipment of their cheap shit doesn't cost as much as from China, etc.

Whether its China/Mexico/India/etc raising their wages and in turn cost of goods/service or the US drastically dropping its wages something has to balance out. Add in that there are plenty of underdeveloped countries to begin developing and working for slave labor when China/Mexico/India/etc start demanding greater wages the problem is endless in my eyes.

May just be one small detail of the crisis we have, I seem to focus in on the negative for some reason though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif We could really use some new invention here, something we can lead the way in to keep us afloat again for awhile.

 
Flip, let me ask you something... Why do you hang out on CA.com? Your thought process and reasoning abilities seem to be much more advanced than most of the people here.
Because he's a troll. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 
The core of that sentence, taken as one piece:

"They believe that we can soften the blow from the current recession, then continue seeking the most growth possible."

Taking that whole sentence, the argument is that:

1) An artificial boom is promoted by seeking unlimited growth

2) A prolonged and deeper bust is created by trying to soften the fall.

It's like free-market growth without free-market correction when the market dictates it.

I don't agree with Keynesian interest rate manipulation, and I don't agree with monetarist money supply manipulation. Both of these are the key tactics being used in the economy right now and I think they will prove detrimental. I agree with Keynes on many things (including investment in infrastructure) but I believe that long-term growth and sustainability is more likely from, say, von Mises.

 
Sad but I don't see us competitive unless we come closer to production/labor costs in China and Mexico. Especially Mexico as they are closer physically so shipment of their cheap shit doesn't cost as much as from China, etc.
Whether its China/Mexico/India/etc raising their wages and in turn cost of goods/service or the US drastically dropping its wages something has to balance out. Add in that there are plenty of underdeveloped countries to begin developing and working for slave labor when China/Mexico/India/etc start demanding greater wages the problem is endless in my eyes.

May just be one small detail of the crisis we have, I seem to focus in on the negative for some reason though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif We could really use some new invention here, something we can lead the way in to keep us afloat again for awhile.
I guess I don't understand the logic in becoming a third world country. We might as well just stay on the current course and we'll eventually become a third world country.

 
I guess I don't understand the logic in becoming a third world country. We might as well just stay on the current course and we'll eventually become a third world country.
There is no logic in wanting to become a 3rd world country, question is how do we avoid it. If we are not a nation of producers or innovators, but a nation of consumers, how do we support our economy long term?

 
I guess I don't understand the logic in becoming a third world country. We might as well just stay on the current course and we'll eventually become a third world country.
Actually, the point is that you meet in the middle somewhere and ability would grow with technology. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

There is no logic in wanting to become a 3rd world country, question is how do we avoid it. If we are not a nation of producers or innovators, but a nation of consumers, how do we support our economy long term?
Werd....

 
Alot of people don't like hearing **** news, but we have to face reality. I'm a pessimist, I don't see the US being competitive with the global market until our factory workers make 5 bucks a day, our tech workers make 5 bucks an hour, etc. Its a global market now and unless our wages match what the global work force is making, and our regulations match polluting countries regs we will not be able to compete. Unless we move to a protectionist approach we have a long way to fall before things stablize long term.
My only hope is that other countries start demanding better wages and impliment stronger regulations...if not the future is bleak. Alot of us have become accustomed to a standard of living that is not realistic in todays world.
If they do that, they lose their competitive advantage. They are no ways near as productive per labor hour as we are.

 
Flip, let me ask you something... Why do you hang out on CA.com? Your thought process and reasoning abilities seem to be much more advanced than most of the people here.
I am not as smart as the words I choose lead others to believe I am. I am well read in one subject.

 
There is no logic in wanting to become a 3rd world country, question is how do we avoid it. If we are not a nation of producers or innovators, but a nation of consumers, how do we support our economy long term?
Well one way we can become innovators is through the auto industry.

 
Actually, the point is that you meet in the middle somewhere and ability would grow with technology. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif


Werd....
Oh, I didn't take $5 a day and $5 an hour as meeting in the middle.

 
Well one way we can become innovators is through the auto industry.
Only problem there is they are behind the curve and up to their ***** in debt, so we are starting at a deficit with their chances at innovation. Not saying they can't be a piece of our countries future success, but stripping them to a clean beginning with chapter 11 might give them a better shot at being successful in the future.

 
The core of that sentence, taken as one piece:
"They believe that we can soften the blow from the current recession, then continue seeking the most growth possible."

Taking that whole sentence, the argument is that:

1) An artificial boom is promoted by seeking unlimited growth

2) A prolonged and deeper bust is created by trying to soften the fall.

It's like free-market growth without free-market correction when the market dictates it.

I don't agree with Keynesian interest rate manipulation, and I don't agree with monetarist money supply manipulation. Both of these are the key tactics being used in the economy right now and I think they will prove detrimental. I agree with Keynes on many things (including investment in infrastructure) but I believe that long-term growth and sustainability is more likely from, say, von Mises.

I agree with you on the monetarist, simply because the fundamental question. "What is money?" Cannot be defined, nor counted. We do not have the ability to count all the money.

Keynesian...depends. New or Classical (there are differences).

The two things cannot be supported because of the difficulty in determining booms and busts. For instance, the stock market boom in the late 1990s, was it artificial or real? Furthermore, can the government know when there are booms and busts. The short answer is "No". No one can...and trying to creates a problem know as the "Time Inconsistancy Problem" -- If you can find it in wikipedia, I can dig up the Nobel Prize winning lecture.

The problem I have with von Mises and all of Austrian Economics is that it doesn't play into reality. In order for something along those lines to actually work, it would requre such a huge paradigm shift that I don't believe is possible.

As for those who seek to abolish the Fed, what would you replace it with? Monetary Policy conducted by legistlatures do not have a very good track record. I use the analogy of the current Fed problems with the over-use of antibiotics. In the past, interest rate manipulation (or now what we use known as they Taylor Rule) worked. It worked because the Fed was credible. As the Fed loses is credibility, it's ability to influence the market weakens. It is as if the market is unafraid or immune to the Fed. However, because the Fed only had a few tools, it had to invent some (TSLF, for example). Those are proving ineffective in current conditions. I believe in a strong central bank for the conduct of monetary policy because the data indicates that is the best thing. Is it perfect? No. Is it good? Not so much. But like democracy, it's the best thing we thought of so far. Like scientists who try to control the newest superstrain of bacteria, those influential in monetary policy must attempt to control the markets.

 
Should the government subsidize that innovation? Why can't they do that on their own? Why did they stop innovating in the mid 1970s?
Should the government pay for their reorganization? Either way the auto companies go, it's going to cost the taxpayers. Ford has been doing a good job turning around the culture of their company. They announced the release of the Fusion Hybrid that is suppose to get 41 MPG. The problem is, the Big 3 has been slow to react. In the 70's and 80's the japs rolled out the fuel efficient cars, and the Big 3's answer was the Pinto. Then the Big 3 got caught up in the SUV's, and were slow to answer with the hybrids.

 
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