michael vick is ******* god

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

IMO that's counter to your argument. By that logic, most people who work "extremely hard" to get where Vick is end up selling cars, working behind a desk, etc.

It's not counter to my argument in any way, shape, form or fashion, homeslice. I don't think the message I tried to convey is very difficult to understand, and I'm pretty sure you're literate, so let's go over things again.

He said - NFL players have whatever "handed to them".

I said - NFL players DON'T have whatever "handed to them".

I went on to explain the fact that football players train very hard to play even high school or college level ball. I finalized my side of the argument (NFL players DO NOT have whatever "handed to them") by saying in a round about way; Out of tens of thousands of players who work very hard, only a select few get the opportunity to play in the NFL.

 

[ButtaMax 10+ year member]

The payday that dudes about to get is gonna be sick.

And to have 2 of the 10 fastest WR's (Jackson/Maclin) in the NFL make this a NIGHTMARE!

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

It's not counter to my argument in any way, shape, form or fashion, homeslice. I don't think the message I tried to convey is very difficult to understand, and I'm pretty sure you're literate, so let's go over things again.
He said - NFL players have whatever "handed to them".

I said - NFL players DON'T have whatever "handed to them".

I went on to explain the fact that football players train very hard to play even high school or college level ball. I finalized my side of the argument (NFL players DO NOT have whatever "handed to them") by saying in a round about way; Out of tens of thousands of players who work very hard, only a select few get the opportunity to play in the NFL.

And my point was, plenty of people work just as hard, or harder, and dont end up with a career that makes them millions and millions of dollars every year. But my original point wasn't even about the money, it was about the fame, and the repercussions it has on society. With fame comes responsibility. Vick stopped dog fighting because he was CAUGHT. Vick went to jail because he was FORCED to. What's he done, voluntarily, to show he's changed? What's he done, voluntarily, to show kids they are idolizing a decent person? Seriously, what? If he's donated to charities, or done much more than the bare minimum to get back to his former glory, Ive not heard about it. Maybe Im just out of the loop, and he's donating a sizable amount of his wealth, to the SPCA. Has he? Has he gone around to schools and talked to kids about the lessons they can learn from his mistakes? Has he done anything beyond basically 'laying low till the anger dies down'?

But again, the NFL has more responsibility to keep their league stocked with honest, decent, law abiding citizens, than does any one individual in that league.

My comment on having things 'handed to him' was probably poor wording on my part, because its spawned this side argument on how hard NFL players work, that was unintended. Do I think professional athletes make more money than their effort justifies, in comparison to the rest of us. Yes, they obviously do. But I did not intend to imply they dont work hard. I guess I over estimated some members here understanding that I realize pro athletes actually work at their career. How hard they work, Im not really interested in debating with you.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

And my point was, plenty of people work just as hard, or harder, and dont end up with a career that makes them millions and millions of dollars every year. But my original point wasn't even about the money, it was about the fame, and the repercussions it has on society. With fame comes responsibility. Vick stopped dog fighting because he was CAUGHT. Vick went to jail because he was FORCED to. What's he done, voluntarily, to show he's changed? What's he done, voluntarily, to show kids they are idolizing a decent person? Seriously, what? If he's donated to charities, or done much more than the bare minimum to get back to his former glory, Ive not heard about it. Maybe Im just out of the loop, and he's donating a sizable amount of his wealth, to the SPCA. Has he? Has he gone around to schools and talked to kids about the lessons they can learn from his mistakes? Has he done anything beyond basically 'laying low till the anger dies down'?
But again, the NFL has more responsibility to keep their league stocked with honest, decent, law abiding citizens, than does any one individual in that league.

My comment on having things 'handed to him' was probably poor wording on my part, because its spawned this side argument on how hard NFL players work, that was unintended. Do I think professional athletes make more money than their effort justifies, in comparison to the rest of us. Yes, they obviously do. But I did not intend to imply they dont work hard. I guess I over estimated some members here understanding that I realize pro athletes actually work at their career. How hard they work, Im not really interested in debating with you.

tl;dr

I don't care about Mike Vick, so the judgement of his character means nothing to me. I will say that I think what he did is wrong, to a degree, but deep down I don't care about that either. I hate pitbulls, so he could kill them all without it bothering me in the slightest...

 

[tr10av 10+ year member]

I'm glad everyone hating on Vick has a perfect life, perfect families and relatives that have never done wrong or gotten into trouble. By some of the reasoning in this thread I would be able to make the following statements:

If you ever cheated in school and got caught you should be expelled forever, not get a 2nd chance.

If you ever get a speeding ticket you should never be able to drive again, not get a 2nd chance.

If you ever cheated/were unfaithful you should never be able to have a relationship again, not get a 2nd chance.

All of yall are ******* stupid

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

tl;dr
I don't care about Mike Vick, so the judgement of his character means nothing to me. I will say that I think what he did is wrong, to a degree, but deep down I don't care about that either. I hate pitbulls, so he could kill them all without it bothering me in the slightest...

I dont know the intimate details of his crime in this regard, but I do know most dog fighters 'train' their pitbulls in bloodlust by letting them kill other less potent breeds of dog.

And I dont say the following to try to sway you, or suggest your opinion is 'wrong', but imo to kill helpless animals in the fashion most successful dog fighters do, is boderline insane. It certainly shows at least a certain degree of detachment from morality. Its one thing to kill 'for sport', putting a bullet through an animals brain for the quick kill. Its another thing entirely to brutalize animals, torture them, starve them, beat them, etc. Im no prissy tree hugger pacifist, but even I have to admit that **** is simply cruel and immoral, for nothing more than personal entertainment.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

I dont know the intimate details of his crime in this regard, but I do know most dog fighters 'train' their pitbulls in bloodlust by letting them kill other less potent breeds of dog.
And I dont say the following to try to sway you, or suggest your opinion is 'wrong', but imo to kill helpless animals in the fashion most successful dog fighters do, is boderline insane. It certainly shows at least a certain degree of detachment from morality. Its one thing to kill 'for sport', putting a bullet through an animals brain for the quick kill. Its another thing entirely to brutalize animals, torture them, starve them, beat them, etc. Im no prissy tree hugger pacifist, but even I have to admit that **** is simply cruel and immoral, for nothing more than personal entertainment.

I've raised animals for a living, so I've got some news for ya; The meat you eat comes from mistreated animals. I don't care where it was raised, because they're all mistreated. Once upon a time I was told to "turn off" the oxygen feed that kept a half million fish alive. Watching them suffocate to death was/is cruel as fuck, but so is the way of the world.

Is a dog's life more important than a fish, pig, chicken or cow? Nope, not really. Does doing my job make me a sadist? No, sir.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I'm glad everyone hating on Vick has a perfect life, perfect families and relatives that have never done wrong or gotten into trouble. By some of the reasoning in this thread I would be able to make the following statements:
If you ever cheated in school and got caught you should be expelled forever, not get a 2nd chance.

If you ever get a speeding ticket you should never be able to drive again, not get a 2nd chance.

If you ever cheated/were unfaithful you should never be able to have a relationship again, not get a 2nd chance.

All of yall are ******* stupid

Good call, brutalizing animals to entertainment is justifiably comparable to cheating on a math test in 5th grade.

Lets flip your logic around on you. If a person is caught, and convicted, of brutalizing and raping children, once he's let out of prison, he should have the same right as anyone else to be alone with your kids.

Ah, but you are about to say dog fighting is not the same as child molestation. True. Just like dog fighting is not the same as cheating on a test, or having an affair. Before you call people stupid, maybe you should make sure your logic is not stupid and illogical.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I've raised animals for a living, so I've got some news for ya; The meat you eat comes from mistreated animals. I don't care where it was raised, because they're all mistreated. Once upon a time I was told to "turn off" the oxygen feed that kept a half million fish alive. Watching them suffocate to death was/is cruel as fuck, but so is the way of the world.
Is a dog's life more important than a fish, pig, chicken or cow? Nope, not really. Does doing my job make me a sadist? No, sir.

Ah, so that oxygen was turned off for someone to simply be entertained watching those fish die? You dont seem to be following my point, at all. Which is surprising, you are usually pretty smart.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

Ah, so that oxygen was turned off for someone to simply be entertained watching those fish die? You dont seem to be following my point, at all. Which is surprising, you are usually pretty smart.

No, the oxygen was turned off because there was nowhere to ship the fish that had outgrown the environment they were being kept in. Does that mean it's okay to let 500,000 of them suffocate to death while everyone stands by, watching?

And please don't belittle me. I'm not having any difficulty keeping up with you here. You're not THAT smart, holmes.

 

[Mookie 10+ year member]

Why you guys doggin on him? For his past? Makes no sense, like you guys never did anything illegal in your life.. Stfu.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

No, the oxygen was turned off because there was nowhere to ship the fish that had outgrown the environment they were being kept in. Does that mean it's okay to let 500,000 of them suffocate to death while everyone stands by, watching.
And please don't belittle me. I'm not having any difficulty keeping up with you here. You're not THAT smart, holmes.

I've got some news for ya

Who is belittling who, homeslice?

My comment that you dont seem to be following my point was valid, I'll explain. Ive said, many times now, that these deaths are not only brutal and cruel, they are done solely with the intention of personal entertainment. Your example of the fish, was not for entertainment reasons, but for that of logistics. Im not here to argue that the fish died for good reason, or that two wrongs make a right, Im arguing with you that animal cruelty for entertainment is morally wrong. Cows living their entire lives in a space so small they cant move is not right either, and if I could change that somehow, or we had the option of choosing brands of meat that did not follow this practice, I would. But the reality is we dont know which brands do it, if they all do it, or which ones try harder to avoid this type of cruelty. But again, even agreeing its morally wrong in many ways, at least the purpose of this system is to feed people. Feeding people trumps personal entertainment.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Why you guys doggin on him? For his past? Makes no sense, like you guys never did anything illegal in your life.. Stfu.

*facepalm*

 

[Mookie 10+ year member]

Lmao.. Vick is a beast either way. Hate all you want about him doing what he did. Aint going to change anything at all. He still a beast.

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

Who is belittling who, homeslice?
My comment that you dont seem to be following my point was valid, I'll explain. Ive said, many times now, that these deaths are not only brutal and cruel, they are done solely with the intention of personal entertainment. Your example of the fish, was not for entertainment reasons, but for that of logistics. Im not here to argue that the fish died for good reason, or that two wrongs make a right, Im arguing with you that animal cruelty for entertainment is morally wrong. Cows living their entire lives in a space so small they cant move is not right either, and if I could change that somehow, or we had the option of choosing brands of meat that did not follow this practice, I would. But the reality is we dont know which brands do it, if they all do it, or which ones try harder to avoid this type of cruelty. But again, even agreeing its morally wrong in many ways, at least the purpose of this system is to feed people. Feeding people trumps personal entertainment.

Your argument holds very little weight with me, dude. The fact that these killings were done for the sake of entertainment doesn't make them any more "wrong" than killing a deer, fish, cat, pig, cow, squirrel, etc for the fun of it. Killing is killing. A life is a life. What Vick did strikes a nerve with a lot of people, because certain individuals feel as if it's taboo to kill a dog. Most of these people have no problem eating a hamburger that came from a cow killed by exsanguination.

Having seen what I've seen, and done what I've done, I have a difficult time caring about the lives of some dogs. I think it's shitty that they were tortured, but one could argue that slaughterhouses all over the world are torturning millions of animals as we speak. In the grand scheme of things, I just can't get worried about it...