Leftovers from the Second Skin drama...

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I try to stay out of these conversation since there is no end game for me when dealing with people that have an obvious agenda.I'd like to say this though many of the things Audioholic has said have a grain of truth to them, and a whole lot of exaggeration.

If anyone wants to know my side of the situation, which is not nearly as bad as the 5 or 6 angry and banned and pissed off DIYMA members would have you beleive, PM me or send an email

service@secondskinaudio.com

I am done posting in this thread.

Posting my side of the story in this thread would only encorage more drama that I would have no chance defending against. I have tried, and it doesn't seem to matter.

ANT

You are welcome to post where I exaggerated. I dont post info unless I believe it to be true. Ive made that clear to you in the past. But it seems clear you will act in this thread, as you have done so many times in the past... post a vague reply that makes you appear as some sort of victim, but with little or no substance to actually be held to, and then duck out to avoid the tough questions. Again, if you think my comments only hold a grain of truth, set the record straight. As always, id be glad to listen and give you a fair chance. As it stands however, I wont let you pretend Im simply speaking out of some hidden agenda. Again, Ive been quite the fan of SS in the past, and have no affiliation with Don, his company, or his products. I simply am rather outspoken about what I perceive as poor ethics in this hobby. Its no different than my outspoken nature about Ben Milne and Elemental Designs. So please, speak up, or quit playing the victim here.

again, what rule? stating the same thing over and over again... maybe you should take your own advice and leave the subject alone once your opinion has been stated. i don't need to personally defame you nor have i. you don't need my help with that.
i am done posting in here. i'll let you get the last word in, it's obvious you need to to make yourself feel better. enjoy it.

So the guy who doesn't like seeing me repeat myself wants me to repeat what rule yet again? Now you are just playing dumb. And I guess you dont know what the word 'defame' means, as you have attempted to do so since your first response to me in this thread. Denying it doesn't change that fact. Maybe you think nobody will notice. As for 'my own advice', Im not the one claiming once we 'all' know someone's feelings on a subject, they should shut up about it. Your little spin attempt is pretty sad.

Thank you for your side. I got the similar from a few others including Ant himself. It is a private forum. Someone pays for the domain, servers, and administrates. A lot of places charge to advertise in sigs. If SDS was denied this option, this is one thing, if they didn't pay that is another. The rest, well shit happens. Being E-activists does nothing to help SDS.

To say I was doing the same thing is incorrect. I clearly stated that I would like facts. I am trying to be impartial as a consumer. It is frustrating seeing noise on forums like this. It would be nice if your story, any additions, and ant could post in a stickied forum and get the shit in the air so everyone could kiss and make up. I understand that wouldnt happen though because on the internet 30 year old men are reduced to a lord of the flies mentality.

Yes, it is a private forum, and normally Id agree he has every right to run it how he wants. Its much like how Elemental Designs has policed their ICIX forum in years past. But unlike ICIX, Ant has made many claims in the past he would keep the forum 'public' and not act in such a manner as to squelch an info regarding his products or company, or a competing company's products. If he wants to play the 'im totally fair' game, he should be willing to take the lumps when its made public he is guilty of sicking a vb bug on people to squelch their voices. Fair is fair.
I fail to see the relevance of your lord of the flies comment.

 

[Upgrayedd 10+ year member]

One last question that can sum things up atleast for me. Did don refuse to pay to advertise or was he never given the opportunity? I'm sure no one but don can answer this. Ant stated he refused. If this is the truth then This is all much ado about nothing.

Edit:

Yes I admit Lord of the Flies is a bit incorrect since it isn't a large group one 1 with no defense. Close however.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

One last question that can sum things up atleast for me. Did don refuse to pay to advertise or was he never given the opportunity? I'm sure no one but don can answer this. Ant stated he refused. If this is the truth then This is all much ado about nothing.

You are forgetting the vb bug. Or do you consider it acceptable to secretly sick a bug on people you wish to silence in order to avoid accepting responsibility for this action? Not that I believe you will answer in an unbiased form at this point, considering your lord of the flies comments.

 

[genxx 10+ year member]

Anthony.

Unfortunately nothing has been exaggerated. The proof has been posted time and time again even with your apologies for doing the stuff.

Your products are good and I have used them.

The issue is always you as a person.

So if you want some good products there is nothing wrong with SS products.

The issue some have is they know their money is going to you, which in the end for many is the number one issue.

Have a nice day.

 

[Upgrayedd 10+ year member]

I will answer. I do not like the action. However, I still feel he did as he saw fit right or wrong. He also confirmed my previous question that the ability to pay was not offered formally until the crap hit the fan. I am in no way taking Anthony's side. I feel there were misjudgments on both sides. I may read the crap on diy at some point but my conclusion is the same. I am impartial. Could use either product. One thing stands out to me. Anthony admitted all of this to me, knowing I did not agree with him. At a minimum I can respect that. At this point I feel the stories are out and the debate will never end. If you see this as an attack on you, sds supporters, or don it isn't. I just feel stabs do not help a cause and possibly this could have been avoided to an extent if it were left between ant and don.

 

[Pickler 10+ year member]

RAAMmat BXT II //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

One last question that can sum things up atleast for me. Did don refuse to pay to advertise or was he never given the opportunity? I'm sure no one but don can answer this. Ant stated he refused. If this is the truth then This is all much ado about nothing.

Not sure it really matters, but I was not allowed to become a vendor. My primary concern at the time was that once I had a commercial interest in sound deadening that to not identify myself as such was misleading. Eventually a feature was added that allowed me to at least identify my company affiliation. There was a significant purge of threads that mentioned my products in reviews and build logs. It got pretty nasty for a while. Anthony has publicly stated that DIYMA is now a Second Skin site, so it is what it is.

 

[Upgrayedd 10+ year member]

It does matter. Ant Admitted that initially the sponsorship was not brought to your attention until later. I do not agree with that. There is a lot I don't care for on his side.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Respect him for admitting it if you want. If I saw the situation the way you do, I might feel the same way. However, I see it as he only admitted his guilt in these situations after the accusations were proven true. Only then. That, along with him attempting to silence people in such a secret and malicious way, leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. Him further attempting to now play the victim in this situation point to one solid conclusion, at least in my eyes.

 

[Upgrayedd 10+ year member]

I certainly see him as no innocent party if that means anything.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

It means you are, at least, open to hearing the truth. I can respect that.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I have spoken to Anthony this evening via PM's, and I feel its only right to say I do believe he has, for the most part, good intentions. But as I told him, good intentions do not justify bad decisions. I believe he is sorry for mistakes he has made in the past, but I also feel (and told him) that the situation is not behind him if people still feel angry or distrustful over the situation. I also stated my feeling that he could take this situation, this thread and threads like it, as an opportunity to express his sorrow over his mistakes, and use these threads as a means to help rebuild trust he has lost. I urged him to stop leaving these threads so abruptly, to meet them head-on with honesty and humility I do believe he feels, and only then will these types of arguments fade away.

I also promised him that if he does chose to open back up to these questions and threads in general, I will do my best to maintain fairness on my part, and try to help others give him a fair shake. The choice is his alone how he will handle future discussions on the matter, and what becomes of his reputation in regards to the issues discussed in this and other threads like it.

 

[Upgrayedd 10+ year member]

I have spoken to Anthony this evening via PM's, and I feel its only right to say I do believe he has, for the most part, good intentions. But as I told him, good intentions do not justify bad decisions. I believe he is sorry for mistakes he has made in the past, but I also feel (and told him) that the situation is not behind him if people still feel angry or distrustful over the situation. I also stated my feeling that he could take this situation, this thread and threads like it, as an opportunity to express his sorrow over his mistakes, and use these threads as a means to help rebuild trust he has lost. I urged him to stop leaving these threads so abruptly, to meet them head-on with honesty and humility I do believe he feels, and only then will these types of arguments fade away.
I also promised him that if he does chose to open back up to these questions and threads in general, I will do my best to maintain fairness on my part, and try to help others give him a fair shake. The choice is his alone how he will handle future discussions on the matter, and what becomes of his reputation in regards to the issues discussed in this and other threads like it.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif

Even if that request is met, I fear it will still be a crapfest (not saying you will start or partake) It is a large group on the internet. Civility is difficult.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Sometimes doing the right thing is difficult. All I, and you, everyone reading this or future threads if he chooses to participate, could do is try to help keep things civil. I believe the important parties involved would remain civil, and anyone who didnt is just a superficial participant. Honesty and integrity show through in how you act, every day, in every situation. If someone acts like an ***, well, they will only serve to make themselves look like an ***.

For the record, and to remain 100% up front, I have requested to Anthony before to do what I asked tonight, address the questions head-on rather than run from them. Im not suggesting it would be easy, but if he truly feels bad and is honest with everyone, he can only go up from here.

 

[Upgrayedd 10+ year member]

I feel like a busy body getting this involved in this. I was not there and still refuse to state any bias. I was just trying to figure out why to or not to purchase from a company. I see people trashing companies on the internet all of the time and have been on both sides. Over time it just put a sour taste in my mouth, even if the arguments were for the "more right" party.