Installing 16v\18v setup for daily

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

Let's say i have 16v batt up front and a bank of 16v in the back.

I have my alternator set at ~19v.

Powermaster's step down transformer is only rated for 25A continuous so would i need like 4-6 of these all wired in parallel to run the car and a couple 12v amps?

my other 2 bass amps are 18v.

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[schackel 10+ year member]

go for a 21 volt system

 

[18inchjeepin 10+ year member]

hmm, invest in a second alt?

 

[Mr. Slate 10+ year member]

Crazy scenario.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

can't run second alt, no room.

I don't understand how powermaster could manufacturer a transformer to run a car at only 25A continuous..

I like to do detailed research and never seen anyone discuss this before.

I've thoroughly read why not to use Kinetik's 3 post 16v battery either. That looked real nasty over time...

 

[njaykaplan 10+ year member]

I think a 12v battery only needs 20-25 amps to charge properly, i'm sure somebody will correct me if i'm wrong, i'm sure its not counting your mids and highs amp but i'd highly suggest a Harrison labs fluxcap. It'll let you run a 16v setup completely isolated from the 12v setup, and let you run a 12v alternator still.

 

[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

can't run second alt, no room.
I don't understand how powermaster could manufacturer a transformer to run a car at only 25A continuous..

I like to do detailed research and never seen anyone discuss this before.

I've thoroughly read why not to use Kinetik's 3 post 16v battery either. That looked real nasty over time...

Ive gone the route with the Kinetik HC16V. I had a Powermaster 16v alt charging at 18v. Ran to the Kinetik HC16V, then the 12v post to the stock battery to start the car and run the highs. I had the 16v post run back to 16 Powermaster 16v batteries. The Kinetik swole up and left me stranded after like 1 month of use.

Either go with 2 seperate alternators and 2 seperate electrical systems, or dont do it at all IMO.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

I think a 12v battery only needs 20-25 amps to charge properly, i'm sure somebody will correct me if i'm wrong, i'm sure its not counting your mids and highs amp but i'd highly suggest a Harrison labs fluxcap. It'll let you run a 16v setup completely isolated from the 12v setup, and let you run a 12v alternator still.

2 other people from another forum have suggested this.

What i am trying to figure out is, doesn't these caps draw massive current to produce it's voltage?

If that's true.. then the alt would be completely depleted of output relying solely on batts...

Correct me if i'm wrong about this.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

If you run kinetik 16v and you have a bank of them you connect the 12vs all together and run off that. I have also talked to them about having a 12v battery under the hood only connected to the 16v batteries 12v posts (non directly to the alt). I know of a gentleman who bought them and has ran them daily pretty much since they were released with no issues and thats been about 3 yrs at least.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

here is the longevity problem-

They were made as starting batteries.

So, the 18v alt would run over the 16v post, the car would run over the 12v post.

Now, what post do u think will be in use more?

The 12v post... It has to run the car.

The 16v post is there just so the alt can pass over it and reach the battery bank of 16v in the rear.

The idea was unique but the conclusion was horrible.

What happens is the majority of 16v equipment pulls it's current from the rear bank so the front battery's 16v side is usually topped off.

The 12v side however always uses more current so it discharges more...

So you have 6 cells that make up the 12v side and 2 cells that make up the 16v side.

Since the 2 cells is what the alt passes over, if those 2 cells are fully charged... then the battery will not accept a charge to allow it to top off the battery like it should!

This causes an imbalance which eventually leads to failure.

the onyl solution i know to prevent failure is to periodically connect the hc16v to a charger and let it equalize before charging. This is expensive and not convenient.

This is why powermaster does not like the design at all and have tested it as well. this where the information comes from that i read a long time ago.

they make a step down transformer but mostly for racing so the 12v output is low, only 25A continuous.

 

[njaykaplan 10+ year member]

I forgot how much current the HLabs draws, but i had a single 100 amp version i believe it was, and my setup was a stock 150 amp alternator, single starting deep cycle 12v battery, and then 2 S1000s, which werent even the beefy 16v batterys, to run a sundown 3k. I had it charging at first at around 20.5v, but the sundown didnt like it too much, and i cut it down half a volt. I could hear a slight noise when i wasnt drawing anything, and when the amp was actually seeing above 18v or 19v i guess. I never had a problem with not having enough current, and after i went from 3 12v batterys running the sundown to my 16v setup, the Fluxcap completely got rid of my dimming, even though it was minimal before. Its completely adjustable though, from 12v up to a voltage that could destroy your car and the fluxcap itself . If you call, they're very helpful people, they wont be rude if you just have questions.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

well, i was trying to understand how the fluxcaps work and i believe i do now so tell me if i'm wrong about the following or not-

It states that it's 98.5% efficient.

The amp ratings on these fluxcaps, should these be equal or slightly higher than the alternator output rating?

I'm under the assumption that since the alt is what is gonna drive these caps that if the max capacity is reached from the alt that no additional current can flow through the caps, correct? with the exception of the starting battery but i rather not for the sake of being able to start the car...

So is that part correct?

also, 98.5% efficient.

So this means that since my alt is a 250A alt and if it's pushin about 200A of current through let's say a single 200A cap, that i should see the following-

Example-

14.0v 200A = 2800w

Output-

18.5v 200A then minus efficiency - 197A = 3644.5 watts

Is this correct?

Also, another question..

Since this is an upconverter, it will only ask for power when the amps ask for power correct?

And one last thing, when this thing is not turned on, or if the vehicle is off, this device does properly isolate the 16v batts from ever bleeding into the 12v side, correct?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

here is the longevity problem-
They were made as starting batteries.

So, the 18v alt would run over the 16v post, the car would run over the 12v post.

Now, what post do u think will be in use more?

The 12v post... It has to run the car.

The 16v post is there just so the alt can pass over it and reach the battery bank of 16v in the rear.

The idea was unique but the conclusion was horrible.

What happens is the majority of 16v equipment pulls it's current from the rear bank so the front battery's 16v side is usually topped off.

The 12v side however always uses more current so it discharges more...

So you have 6 cells that make up the 12v side and 2 cells that make up the 16v side.

Since the 2 cells is what the alt passes over, if those 2 cells are fully charged... then the battery will not accept a charge to allow it to top off the battery like it should!

This causes an imbalance which eventually leads to failure.

the onyl solution i know to prevent failure is to periodically connect the hc16v to a charger and let it equalize before charging. This is expensive and not convenient.

This is why powermaster does not like the design at all and have tested it as well. this where the information comes from that i read a long time ago.

they make a step down transformer but mostly for racing so the 12v output is low, only 25A continuous.

You need more than 1 to run the car daily and for 12v audio gear. That is why you talk to kinetik tech support and not others and the only people who I have ever really seen say what you did are affiliated with or sponsored by pm and when they hooked up the 12v they used 1 battery.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

i understand why u say use more than one, to "level the playing field." i understand where u are coming from.

PM may think it's misleading since they never mention that unless it comes with a manual stating that. I would never think of it unless somewhat explained it like u did.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

i understand why u say use more than one, to "level the playing field." i understand where u are coming from.
PM may think it's misleading since they never mention that unless it comes with a manual stating that. I would never think of it unless somewhat explained it like u did.

That is why you talk to the tech support about what you are looking at and what you would actually need.After you talked to all of your options pick out what works best for you. Everything from the flux caps, extra alt, way you hook up a bank and the step downs all work. How to get the best results from what you choose would be best answered by anyone of those tech departments from whose product you are looking at. I have talked to several battery companies and if you ask point blank the difference or what is better by each company I would bet they pick one of several reasons why THEIR OWN product is better for any number of reasons. Same with amps and same with subs and or speakers.