How to time align components?

[kcducttaper]

I'm getting ready to install some Polk DB6502 DB+ components into my Trailblazer and got to wondering... Since my ears would be significantly closer to the tweeters mounted higher on the door than the woofers at the bottom of the door - how would I time align them to get the phasing correct at my listening position?

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[DRBOOM]

The time alignment feature is great to use.  All you have to do is select the time alignment and then use a measuring tape to measure the distance from the drivers seat to;

• all the speakers you have in the car, front right.  - enter the distance in inches or feet, repeat for all the other three speakers. 
  
• You may or may not have to option to measure your subwoofer placement unless your unit provides that option but;
  
• set your subwoofer at 80hz or lower ( I had mine at 63hz)
  
• Once you are done, you don't have to go back again unless you would like to make changes.;
  
• Makes a huge difference in sound after this is done
  

  I usually set mine for both front seats and that gave me the best sound, so I did not just leave my settings to drivers side but again, we leave that up to you mate!

Let us know how you go or if you still not sure about this topic.  Cheers mate! :fro:

 

[kcducttaper]

Thanks, but I'm talking about delaying the actual drivers after the crossover. Since the full-range signal is entering my doors via the same pair of wires and then being split by the passive crossover, how would I effectively delay the tweeters by just a tad to get the phase correct at the XO frequency so they're not cancelling each other out causing a null/spike due to time alignment?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thanks, but I'm talking about delaying the actual drivers after the crossover. Since the full-range signal is entering my doors via the same pair of wires and then being split by the passive crossover, how would I effectively delay the tweeters by just a tad to get the phase correct at the XO frequency so they're not cancelling each other out causing a null/spike due to time alignment?

you cant, its passive crossovers, the best thing you can do is settle or wire out of phase. Thats the complete limitations of using passive components which i'm completely against. 

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

mids and tweets are linked together so its basically one speaker that you can try your best to get a center stage and in phase through deadening, and mid/tweeter positioning and possibly somewhat level match if your head unit has L/R attenuation.  There's nothing you can do signal wise to control independently the mid and tweeter if they are hooked up to passive crossover, your speakers are basically a coaxial  with better positioning thats all.

 

[kcducttaper]

I was afraid of that. I'm completely against spending over a grand just to make a car sound similar to a pair of $50 bookshelves. I was hoping there might be some tips/tricks up someone's sleeve that I hadn't thought of before.

Apologies if that sounds condescending and I don't mean to be a douche. I know cars are more difficult to produce good audio in, but when I look at a pair of $50 bookshelves like the Dayton Audio B652-AIR's and can hardly even get a single pair of drivers (let alone an AMT tweeter like the Daytons have), that just completely rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I was afraid of that. I'm completely against spending over a grand just to make a car sound similar to a pair of $50 bookshelves. I was hoping there might be some tips/tricks up someone's sleeve that I hadn't thought of before.

Apologies if that sounds condescending and I don't mean to be a douche. I know cars are more difficult to produce good audio in, but when I look at a pair of $50 bookshelves like the Dayton Audio B652-AIR's and can hardly even get a single pair of drivers (let alone an AMT tweeter like the Daytons have), that just completely rubs me the wrong way.

you know you could just buy dayton b652 airs and take out the drivers, crossovers etc and run them in your car right?  hahaha

Most cheaper pioneer head units nowadays can run active even on head unit power.  

IDK to me the dayton airs needed to be ported and the mid needed a low pass crossover implemented and needed a good amount of power to play loud and clean. those lepai amps are no where enough.

 

[kcducttaper]

you know you could just buy dayton b652 airs and take out the drivers, crossovers etc and run them in your car right?  hahaha

Most cheaper pioneer head units nowadays can run active even on head unit power.  

IDK to me the dayton airs needed to be ported and the mid needed a low pass crossover implemented and needed a good amount of power to play loud and clean. those lepai amps are no where enough.

I've actually thought along those lines. Looking back, I legitimately wish I hadn't bought a set of Polk components and just got some Dayton drivers and designed a little XO myself. I've built some bookshelf speakers myself, so I have the tools, and knowledge, to design a proper XO.

The Dayton AIR tweeters are fairly well regarded in the car audio world as are the Dayton RS series for woofers. Generally speaking, I agree about the porting (which totally depends on the QTS of the driver and box, btw), but you can also argue that for cars needing a sub to sound good in the low end, so that's kinda a wash IMO.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I've actually thought along those lines. Looking back, I legitimately wish I hadn't bought a set of Polk components and just got some Dayton drivers and designed a little XO myself. I've built some bookshelf speakers myself, so I have the tools, and knowledge, to design a proper XO.

The Dayton AIR tweeters are fairly well regarded in the car audio world as are the Dayton RS series for woofers. Generally speaking, I agree about the porting (which totally depends on the QTS of the driver and box, btw), but you can also argue that for cars needing a sub to sound good in the low end, so that's kinda a wash IMO.

i meant that particular bookshelf series. not the drivers in general. I have those b652 airs too I was listing out the stuff I didnt like about them.  

 

[kcducttaper]

i meant that particular bookshelf series. not the drivers in general. I have those b652 airs too I was listing out the stuff I didnt like about them.  

Sure, they're not perfect as they're 'only' $50, but my point is, they sound way better than any $50 set of car speakers I've ever heard and I just had to be cranky about that for a little bit.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Sure, they're not perfect as they're 'only' $50, but my point is, they sound way better than any $50 set of car speakers I've ever heard and I just had to be cranky about that for a little bit.

I would have gladly paid 75 if they added the things I've listed and they would be literally perfect budget speakers.

 

[kcducttaper]

I would have gladly paid 75 if they added the things I've listed and they would be literally perfect budget speakers.

For sure! Heck, they sound better than many $200 bookshelves. I legitimately don't know how they make money on those. Just the AMT is worth as much as the whole speaker costs! The woofer isn't too crazy special (I believe it was a GRS driver buy-out if I remember correctly), but that still leaves the cost of materials on the crossover network, box, and assembly.

I've got an idea for a bookshelf that goes from 20+kHz to 33Hz +/- 2dB bouncing around in my head, but don't tell anyone... Only thing is, the cost of materials on that is roughly $400 - more if I want to make it look super nice with a solid wood baffle and baltic birch on the sides.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

they get those amt tweeters for like 5 bucks a pop from china and the GRS buyouts for 1 dollar since they buy in bulk. They only have an inline high pass crossover for the tweeter and the enclosure is easily massed produced, i think they get a 30 dollar profit margin on each pair easy thats why when they accidentally sent me 6 pairs when I only ordered 3 pairs... "They said oh well its our mistake, you can keep it cheers"  I think the shipping costs more than the speaker itself.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

madisound.com has much nicer drivers than parts express namely scanspeak, seas, sb acoustics etc... if you plan on making your own bookshelf. 

 

[audiomention]

The time alignment feature is great to use. All you have to do is select the time alignment and then use a measuring tape to measure the distance from the drivers seat to;

• all the speakers you have in the car, front right. - enter the distance in inches or feet, repeat for all the other three speakers.
  
  
• You may or may not have to option to measure your subwoofer placement unless your unit provides that option but;
  
  
• set your subwoofer at 80hz or lower ( I had mine at 63hz)
  
  
• Once you are done, you don't have to go back again unless you would like to make changes.;
  
  
• Makes a huge difference in sound after this is done
  

I usually set mine for both front seats and that gave me the best sound, so I did not just leave my settings to drivers side but again, we leave that up to you mate!

Let us know how you go or if you still not sure about this topic. Cheers mate! :fro:

Thanks for your kind information. I really appreciate your effort