How to go about upgrading mid range and tweeters?

[lnsomnia]

Hey guys, let me start off by saying I honestly know very little about mid range and tweeter installation. By no means, am I saying I know it all when it comes to sub stage and bass; i'm just unfamiliar with mids and highs.

Anyways, I have a decent sub stage right now, and I'm looking to upgrade my sub stage to 2000 rms, walling off two 15 fi ssd's in my '05 Honda Civic SI (Hatchback). I HAVE to upgrade my door speakers and tweeters.

I just need some pointers or a general direction I should approach when it comes to upgrading those speakers. I need something to keep up with the bass.

I wanted to get this: Q-Forms Kick Panel Enclosures (Black) Install 6-1/2" components in your 2001-05 Honda Civic at Crutchfield.com and just put a decent mid/high stage in that enclosure while keeping my stock door speakers and tweeters? Is that possible or no?

If not, could someone give me some recommendations on what I should do? I'm open to anything and my budget is $300-400 for the mids and tweeters. I'm not looking to do any custom fabrication/fiberglass work.

Thoughts and suggestions please? Thanks guys!

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[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

not many midbass in 3 ways will keep up with that sub stage much less 2 ways.

whats your budget and hw much power? you need some decent tweeters and mids to be worthy of keeping up..

 

[lnsomnia]

not many midbass in 3 ways will keep up with that sub stage much less 2 ways.whats your budget and hw much power? you need some decent tweeters and mids to be worthy of keeping up..

My budget is probably anywhere from $200-400.

I would just like to upgrade my door speakers and tweeters to at least get more sound out of them. I prefer SQ over SPL/loudness. I'm open to any suggestion on how I should upgrade those speakers.

 

[murph 10+ year member]

Pro audio

 

[lnsomnia]

Pro audio

Wut.

 

[murph 10+ year member]

Wut.

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/woofers-subwoofers-midrange-speakers/249

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

the problem is this - your "front stage" should cost more than your sub stage if you expect good musical output.

but the car audio world has been teaching people to do it backwards - spend thousands on subs and sub amps then a few hundred on some speakers ran off a deck.

step 1: you need good amplification for speakers. more channels and flexible crossovers allow active which lets you run any type of speaker you want without worry of passive crossover compatibility.

step 2: modifying the vehicle's speaker locations to accommodate the necessary drivers.

step 3: choosing drivers that fit the location, and are filtered to play a range in which they will be successful.

i'm not saying you have to break the bank with a front stage, certainly, it can be done for a lot less. Hell, I put this together and it sounded great for $150 total:

Vifa OT19NC00

Dayton Reference RS-100

Silver Flute W17RC38-04

I ran them with a pair of xtant 403a amplifiers, active with an H701. So you figure after $2k worth of processing and amplification, and hundreds of hours of vehicle modifications - I can make decent budget speakers sound great.

reasons:

I've ran the Vifa ring radiator back when i ran the Alpine SPX-177R. they are better in spheres.

I like Dayton audio drivers and i like a dedicated full range (midrange) in the kicks. i will locate these more on axis (and play with aiming) and may run with just a high pass. they are good to 10kHz on-axis but with most door speakers they roll off above 3kHz based on beaming and off-axis response.

I heard great things about the Silver Flute drivers in a midbass application - and they delivered once properly installed.

putting the large midbass in the doors of an Accord required some modifications (including removing metal)

fully sealed, deadened, and with pvc encased fiberglass batt absorption

but then I ditched them and went for German Maestro Status SV6509.

good, but not good enough.

Now i'm installing Hertz Mille MLK-165.

During the interim of changing speakers and amps, I ran the Silver Flute and Vifa tweeters off the head unit directly (just caps on the tweeters for HPF). And it sounds decent - surprisingly so, but I already had the investment in time and effort making the doors sound amazing.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

midbass requires an outstanding enclosure. a Q-form is a terrible midbass enclosure. you can get away with a dedicated midrange only, but you'll need to use doors for midbass. a 3-way is a good way to get more output with good clarity since you use a dedicated midrange.

 

[lnsomnia]

Wow, thank you so much for the help! Ok, so lets say I wanted to get this:

Focal Integration ISS 130 5-1/4" component speaker system at Crutchfield.com

What else would I need to make that work? An amp, correct? 2-channel? Anything else? And any suggestions on the amp?

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

you want a 6.5" speaker for the front. Buying from Crutchfield is a good idea since they will give you the required mounting adapters and wire adapters. the factory speakers has a large plastic housing so you cannot simply screw a new speaker in-place. a mounting adapter will secure to the door then the speaker attaches to it. i use weatherstripping foam to seal and isolate each piece. seal adapter to metal. seal speaker to adapter. seal speaker to door panel (foam on the front of the adapter that meets up with the door panel (just like stock). these seals are required for good response.

due to the Molex plug at the door, the easy thing to do is reuse factory speaker wire. this means access will be best behind the head unit. you will use factory wiring for the woofer but will run new wire for the tweeters (in stock dash locations). the crossovers can be under the seats , in the glove box, etc. speaker amp can also be under the seat to save wire length and space.

a simple 2 channel amp will suffice, but a 4 channel offers more flexibility (bridged for more power, or front/rear)., for a compact performer, contact @Vertex Audio or @trumpet.


the stock tweeters are in parallel with the door woofers and have a simple cap on them for filtering. this is why you will run new wire for tweeters, 18awg is fine for tweeters, 16-14 awg is fine for door woofers.

 

[lnsomnia]

Awesome. I actually didn't expect to get that much help. Thank you again; so much. Hopefully I can get it all figured out once everything is in my hands.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Awesome. I actually didn't expect to get that much help. Thank you again; so much. Hopefully I can get it all figured out once everything is in my hands.

feel free to ask any questions you may come across.

i also moderate an Accord forum, so you can ask questions of other Accord owners specifically:

Audio/Visual Electronics - Honda Accord Forum - Honda Accord Enthusiast Forums

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

I agree with @keep_hope_alive

Please, don't go pro audio. Those pa mids and tweets screaming at you is a nightmare.....

And since you are about to build your mids/highs stage from the ground up, i would spend alot of time asking questions and researching, that way you can set it up the best it can be the first time around.

Throw pa stuff in your car and your ruined.

@keep_hope_alive

I've been hanging with the spl guys lately, and have been trying to think of a way to successfully implement mids/highs into an spl setup that sounds pleasant without going the route of those god awful pro speakers.

A few ideas I've had.

-Mount a 5 1/3 >= coaxial on axis in the a pillar.

-Possible use pro audio in kick panels.

-Another thought I've had, is to get the mids as close to the head as possible to compensate for extreme bass, but use crafty tuning to control fatiguing.

I wish one of my spl guys would let me experiment.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

What else would I need to make that work? An amp, correct? 2-channel? Anything else? And any suggestions on the amp?

If you can give some ideas on the size of the space you'd like to fit the amplifier as well as a budget I can get you suggestions. I have several options for 2 channel amplifiers in stock, but instead of just laying them all out I want to get a feel for what is best for you.

For speakers I have 3-way systems with mids and tweeters that can integrate into the vehicle with nearly no modifications. The mids go on top of existing trim panels with a small hole cut to pass the speaker wires through. The tweeters can either go into factory locations or onto the windshield with the wires tucked behind the A-pillar trim panels. These systems can handle 125W-200W RMS per side depending on how low you set the system to play midbass frequencies.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

I agree with @keep_hope_alive
Please, don't go pro audio. Those pa mids and tweets screaming at you is a nightmare.....

And since you are about to build your mids/highs stage from the ground up, i would spend alot of time asking questions and researching, that way you can set it up the best it can be the first time around.

Throw pa stuff in your car and your ruined.

@keep_hope_alive

I've been hanging with the spl guys lately, and have been trying to think of a way to successfully implement mids/highs into an spl setup that sounds pleasant without going the route of those god awful pro speakers.

A few ideas I've had.

-Mount a 5 1/3 >= coaxial on axis in the a pillar.

-Possible use pro audio in kick panels.

-Another thought I've had, is to get the mids as close to the head as possible to compensate for extreme bass, but use crafty tuning to control fatiguing.

I wish one of my spl guys would let me experiment.

I saw a mid-tweet-mid (MTM) config in apillars of an SPL vehicle a while back.

If it were me, i'd have an 8" midbass in each door with mid/tweet in the apillar, on axis. largest mid i could fit, 5.25" is a good size. Then maybe a soundbar (i.e. linear array of speakers) behind, above the enclosure(s), tight to the roof. the rears would be switchable and normally off or maybe delayed.

If I put pro audio gear in a car, it will be B&C.