how much deadner?

[Serpent710 10+ year member]

how much deadner do you think i would need to do the front doors of a 03 f150? sq ft wise. thanks

Click to read more...

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Not trying to be an ***, but do you own a tape measure and the ability to do simple math?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Not trying to be an ***, but do you own a tape measure and the ability to do simple math?

do the math. get the surface area, then cover AT MOST 50% of it w/ cld tiles. no more. not 100% or multiple layers unless you like throwing away $$

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

They say about 60% coverage is enough, and with doors you have the inside of the exterior of the door and then the interior of the interior side of the door, so figure a little bit more than how much would cover one door panel 100%, per door, minimum. Concentrate on the unsupported big areas and tap it with your hand so you can gauge what is tinny and what is thuddy.. With all the junk in the way you're lucky to get70-80 % coverage, for really resonant areas you can double up though. Your looking to add weight not cover completely so as the dude above said, figure as much material as will fit both inside and outside panels of each door 60% minimum, 100% is wasting material and time. (I think I read that somewhere), but ideally just put a layer of deadener anywhere that you can that is accessable and easy to get to and you're there..

Disclaimer: I'm no expert I'm here to learn (But, I just did a ghetto version of my doors with building materials, so it's a fresh lesson. Strip and peel if you're interested. Not recommending, just saying, and I'm happy with it so far).

p.s. One 25' roll of 6" strip and peel did two front doors on a Subaru Station wagon. About 80% coverage and doubled up in a thin unsupported area with great results. I topped it off with thick plastic sheeting and 1/2" closed cell carpet padding. All materials for this including spray adhesive and odds and ends were under 30 bucks.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

there's never a reason to double up.

who are "they" that says 60%?

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

there's never a reason to double up.
who are "they" that says 60%?

I had a couple of less supported columns that failed the tap test when I applied one layer, with two they went from a pingy resonance to a thud, an exception to every rule I suppose.

Also for large high resonance areas that you can't get to because of door mechanics, applying extra mass in the adjacent areas is effective. this is one of many instances where doubling up can achieve results.

I honestly can't remember the name of the guy that said 60% is more than enough for most applications, but it was from a professional car audio guy who does custom sound-proofing and has a vid out on utube. I watched about 30 vids before I did my own thing so I'd be hard pressed to give ya more than that.

It's just common sense though that rules of thumb apply to most (but not all ) systems and vehicles. Some vehicles are made with different thicknesses of material, some systems have much more power to push panels around (actually that shouldn't matter to the resonance though).

For my purposes I'm sure the difference between 50% or even 60% and what I put in (about 80%) might be inaudible, But I have no need for unused portions of asphalt roofing material so I tapped around and put it in the areas that still sounded tinny. It DID make a difference in the tap test. Whether it would with music is anybodies guess.

I think the point is that you don't need 100% coverage because you aren't blocking sound, you're adding mass to lower the resonant frequency. You can hear the resonant frequency by tapping the metal panel with a sharp rap. It's not rocket science, when you don't hear any more improvement you're done.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

POS asphalt is the reason for you thinking you need more than one layer.

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

POS asphalt is the reason for you thinking you need more than one layer.

Maybe so.

I also like to cover the edge of one strip with the next layer because it is asphalt based. I wouldn't bother if I had the higher end material. It just limits any potential smell from uncovered edges. (I did seal the edges though, and as I said, sealed the door with sheeting, and topped it off with padding).

I know it's a low end solution, but I just spent a bucket of money on the rest of the system and wanted to save a few bucks here. If you saw my car you'd know why I don't want to throw much more cash into it. I plan to upgrade in a year or so.

But, POS asphalt does exactly the same thing as higher end material if it weighs the same and bonds the same. I don't notice any smell a week later. The first few days I noticed a bit.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Maybe so. I also like to cover the edge of one strip with the next layer because it is asphalt based. I wouldn't bother if I had the higher end material. It just limits any potential smell from uncovered edges. I did seal the edges though, and as I said, sealed the door with sheeting, and topped it off with padding. I know it's a low end solution, but I just spent a bucket of money on the rest of the system and wanted to save a few bucks here. If you saw my car you'd know why I don't want to throw much more cash into it. I plan to upgrade in a year or so.But, POS asphalt does exactly the same thing as higher end material if it weighs the same and bonds the same.

incorrect.

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

incorrect.

As I'm always saying in my posts, I'm here to learn. So please explain because mass is mass, and resonance is resonance.

I lowered the resonant frequency of my thin metal door panels with this stuff. Other than the fact that I had to wait for a warmer day so that it was easier to work with the material ( I had a heat gun but didn't want to work that hard) I can't honestly think of any reason that the mass of a butyl based product would be any more effective than an asphalt based one, other than the smell of a messy installation which was not applicable in my case.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Butyl has a material property called viscoelasticity. That means that when it is deformed, it slowly rebounds to its original position. It isn't fully elastic and it isn't fully liquid. It is this deformation/rebound cycle through which some vibration is converted to minute quantities of heat. Asphalt doesn't share this property, so all you are doing is making the panel heavier. You may also get some stiffening and some locking together of adjacent panels, but you are also losing one of the fundamental mechanisms of vibration damping along with durability and reliability.

...

 

[The HACKER 10+ year member]

As I'm always saying in my posts, I'm here to learn. So please explain because mass is mass, and resonance is resonance.
I lowered the resonant frequency of my thin metal door panels with this stuff. Other than the fact that I had to wait for a warmer day so that it was easier to work with the material ( I had a heat gun but didn't want to work that hard) I can't honestly think of any reason that the mass of a butyl based product would be any more effective than an asphalt based one, other than the smell of a messy installation which was not applicable in my case.

The butyl has a different chemical build up it dries too (when it is made) is much more dense then that of the roofing material, dont get me wrong it works ive seen it work a thousand times before, but the outcome is NEVER as good in my experience but it does work. And my thing has always been whatever works for you just know that butyl deadner is better then roofing material, theres a reason they are used for two different things. The facts are all out there explanations etc.

 

[The HACKER 10+ year member]

POS asphalt is the reason for you thinking you need more than one layer.

and you can always use two layers, if you look at most any installation instructions it tells you adding another layer over the previous makes a huge difference. So this applies for deadner and the roof crap. Haha but im sure you would NEED the extra layer with the roofing stuff.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

and you can always use two layers, if you look at most any installation instructions it tells you adding another layer over the previous makes a huge difference. So this applies for deadner and the roof crap. Haha but im sure you would NEED the extra layer with the roofing stuff.

buy buy buy more. add more. yes. go ahead. add more deadener so you can deaden the first layer.

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

Food for thought guys. When I get the new car I'll probably look into the tech more thoroughly. If I had to guess I would say that mass is doing 95% of the work or more and any other characteristics would have to be cost effective.

For the right car I'd probably pay double for the last five percent of efficiency, but not for my current bucket.

And based on the explanation posted above 5% is being very generous. It sounds like marketing b.s. to me on face value, but I'll yield to your guy's expertise for now since I've never had the opportunity to compare.

However, there's one inescapable thought that comes to mind. Deadener isn't designed to block sound, so if that is what makes you think it's working better you're using the wrong stuff from the get go.

If the resonant frequency with the added mass is sub- audible, who cares what portion of that sub-audible sound is converted to heat on a quantum level.

I'll shut up now because I know people sell the better product here and I agree it's a great product. (Just don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining).

It's a better product (Butyl based products) because it's cleaner, more durable, less aromatic, easier to work with, and if it comes to it, easier to remove. These are the only valid selling points. I might not put asphalt into an expensive high end car for those reasons, then again maybe I would if I wanted to save a few bucks and it was MY car.. I certainly don't regret putting it in my Subaru. It works great!