Hertz ESK or DSK 130 for a convertible

[Z3M 10+ year member]

I'm trying to put together a speaker system for my BMW Z3M convertible. I'm either going to install Hertz DSK-130 or ESK-130. The woofers in the kick panels and the tweets in the door. I have a set of Hertz EV-130 for BMW's wanna be sub box. All powered by an Alpine PDX 4.150. There is room in the doors next to the tweets for a mid bass 3 1/2 I believe. I don't know what I'm gonna do about that yet.

The spec sheets for the DSK/ESK appear to me to be very close to each other. I have to buy these speakers without hearing them first. I'm interested in opinions on which set I should buy. Please remember this is a convertible so it's safe to say absolute SQ is not a factor.

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[okiedokie 10+ year member]

the is there lower line which sounds good without an amp which impressed me, with a amp powering them they are ok sounding.

Why not step up to these???

http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm

I heard the newer ones the other day & i was impressed with midbass, tonality they are like the older ones.

in a convert just make sure you have good Placement, aiming & lots of deadening.

it hard to get a good SQ or SQL in a convert unless you know what you are doing.

you might want to find a good shop near you that help you design something that will work in your car.

My friend has a convert saturn, im not on the model #, but what he did was work on his front stage first, then he placed an 8inch midbasses on each side of panels behind the front seats, then add a sub in the rear which it all turned out sounding really nice.

having the midbass right behind you gave me the effect that something was kicking me from the side while his front stage drew the everything up front.

it fun driving around San Franscico with his car.

 

[Z3M 10+ year member]

the is there lower line which sounds good without an amp which impressed me, with a amp powering them they are ok sounding.Why not step up to these???

http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm

I heard the newer ones the other day & i was impressed with midbass, tonality they are like the older ones.

in a convert just make sure you have good Placement, aiming & lots of deadening.

it hard to get a good SQ or SQL in a convert unless you know what you are doing.

you might want to find a good shop near you that help you design something that will work in your car.

My friend has a convert saturn, im not on the model #, but what he did was work on his front stage first, then he placed an 8inch midbasses on each side of panels behind the front seats, then add a sub in the rear which it all turned out sounding really nice.

having the midbass right behind you gave me the effect that something was kicking me from the side while his front stage drew the everything up front.

it fun driving around San Franscico with his car.

I hear what you are saying.....I did read up on Hertz Mille. The convertible just has to many other sounds coming at it from all directions. However, to me, I also have one of the sweatiest sounding exhaust notes coming from an inline 3.2 liter 6 cyl.....which I consider a symphony in it's self.

The only local shop that I think is worth going to suggest Alpine idax305, pdx 4.150, Alpine ref or pro and wants to fabricate a sub box for between the seats. I'm with them on everything except the sub box. I bought the ev-130's on a whim because of what I've read in this forum. I hope to hear them someday.

There's currently two 3 1/2 " speakers behind the seats. I've sat in other Z3M convertibles that have upgraded audio systems. You really cannot hear the rear stage. The owners said if they were to do it again, they wouldn't bother with them.

 

[okiedokie 10+ year member]

you can go with a 2way in the front & add a midbass behind you.

being a midbass you focus would with lower end of the mid so wont hear it as much as you woud feel the impact of having more quick punch.

having a sub is for the lower end rumble.

yeah dont let a shop tlk you in doing anything that you want too do your car.

 

[90accordman 5,000+ posts]

esk, imo with that ampplification

 

[Z3M 10+ year member]

you can go with a 2way in the front & add a midbass behind you.being a midbass you focus would with lower end of the mid so wont hear it as much as you woud feel the impact of having more quick punch.

having a sub is for the lower end rumble.

yeah dont let a shop tlk you in doing anything that you want too do your car.

DOH! Ya just gotta wonder about BMW. I took the door apart only to find the mid-range speaker is 60mm 2 ohm. That's 2.362 inches. The speakers behind the seats are 2 1/2 which are secured to the rear panel by a threaded ring. I'm so screwed......

This really limits me on what I can do. I can install the DSK or ESK 130 woofers in the kick panels and put the tweeters in the door. The pair of EV-130 woofers go in the BMW sub box between the seats. Power everything by the PDX 4.150 and us an Alpine i-Dax 305.

I don't know what else to do about the speakers.

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

I don't know what else to do about the speakers.

Have you considered using the stock speakers and just adding the amp and the HU to the system?

 

[Z3M 10+ year member]

Have you considered using the stock speakers and just adding the amp and the HU to the system?

This is a well documented problem in the BMW Z3M world. The Harmon Kardon systems BMW put in the MZ3 is completely proprietary. The HU has a nasty habit of eating CD's. Their are two 70 watt amps powering this mess and I swear I'm not making this up....the amps THD is a reported 10%. This is why 6 of my the 10 2 ohm speakers are blown.

My mids in the door are not blown but they are 2 ohm. What happens if I run 2 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm system?

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

My mids in the door are not blown but they are 2 ohm. What happens if I run 2 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm system?

Typically, the amplifier will produce less power and run warmer. Bring me up to par, if you don't mind. You plan on running mids in the kicks and tweeters in the door factory location. Then you have a sub that needs to be powered, as well. The speakers behind the seats aren't being included in the system. Is that right?

 

[Z3M 10+ year member]

Typically, the amplifier will produce less power and run warmer. Bring me up to par, if you don't mind. You plan on running mids in the kicks and tweeters in the door factory location. Then you have a sub that needs to be powered, as well. The speakers behind the seats aren't being included in the system. Is that right?

This system is in a constant state of flux. Today, this is what I'm planning. HU Alpine idax-305, Amp Alpine PDX 4.150, Hertz DSK-130 or ESK-130 (5.25) w/the woofers in the kick panels and the tweeters in the door...stock locations. Two 5.25 Hertz EV-130 woofers in the BMW sub-woofer box. The BMW mids in the door are 2.36" 2ohm. They get tossed. Behind the seats are two 2 1/2" speakers. There is a BMW mod to install 4" speakers behind the seats. I'm now considering this option. Hertz has a mid-range EM-100 and a coax ECX-100.

Thanks for your help.....

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

1. HU: If you don't mind my asking, why the IDAX305? An Alpine 9887 would allow for a great deal of tuning via its EQ and time alignment, it's ipod-compatible, and it'll play CDs. The time alignment and the parametric EQ would really help to zero in the sound.

2. Speakers: I've never auditioned a Hertz system, so I can't comment on its quality. I'd strongly suggest not using the rear speakers and just sticking with the fronts. As for 5.25" woofers in the sub box, how about a pair of these:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-831

If the enclosure is deep enough for the drivers, they're worthy of serious consideration.

3.Amp: I imagine that you chose the Alpine due to space constraints. It's a fine amplifier, regardless.

 

[Z3M 10+ year member]

1. HU: If you don't mind my asking, why the IDAX305? An Alpine 9887 would allow for a great deal of tuning via its EQ and time alignment, it's ipod-compatible, and it'll play CDs. The time alignment and the parametric EQ would really help to zero in the sound.
2. Speakers: I've never auditioned a Hertz system, so I can't comment on its quality. I'd strongly suggest not using the rear speakers and just sticking with the fronts. As for 5.25" woofers in the sub box, how about a pair of these:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-831

If the enclosure is deep enough for the drivers, they're worthy of serious consideration.

3.Amp: I imagine that you chose the Alpine due to space constraints. It's a fine amplifier, regardless.

This audio system is going into a 1999 BMW Z3M convertible and space is at a premium.

I realize these HU shape, manipulate, and correct the sound for it's environment. That being said, our environment is a convertible. I guess I'm unclear as to how much the HU can affect the SQ in a convertible. We chose the idax305 strictly on the digital media capabilities. We don't want to deal with Cd's and my wife and I also really like the 2x2 display.

I already have the Hertz woofers for the wanna be BMW sub-woofer and I have the PDX amp already. We liked the Boston Acoustic SR50 and the Alpine 5.25 components. No one in my area sells Hertz so we've not heard them. We decided to go with Hertz...just because. Crazy reason I know but so was buying this car....so why not Hertz.

I've heard MZ3 with slight upgrades to the speakers. You could not hear the rear sound. I was thinking if the upgrade was big enough then the rear speakers would be a meaningful upgrade My wife wants to be able to enjoy her Red Hot Chili Peppers at high speed with the top down. I'm OK with no rear speakers as the BMW mod means taking cutting open the 2" opening to 4".

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

This audio system is going into a 1999 BMW Z3M convertible and space is at a premium.

Great car! To be honest, I replied to the thread, because you seem to have the "right" automotive outlook and thought that you might want to hear from another car guy in your age bracket.

I realize these HU shape, manipulate, and correct the sound for it's environment. That being said, our environment is a convertible. I guess I'm unclear as to how much the HU can affect the SQ in a convertible.

The PEQ would help you adjust the system's tonal balance for the environment and your personal taste, and time alignment would focus the soundstage. The difference is not subtle.

We chose the idax305 strictly on the digital media capabilities. We don't want to deal with Cd's and my wife and I also really like the 2x2 display.

Fair enough.

I already have the Hertz woofers for the wanna be BMW sub-woofer and I have the PDX amp already. We liked the Boston Acoustic SR50 and the Alpine 5.25 components. No one in my area sells Hertz so we've not heard them. We decided to go with Hertz...just because. Crazy reason I know but so was buying this car....so why not Hertz.

Do you have all the gear and it's just a matter of installing it, or is there something missing from the system?

I've heard MZ3 with slight upgrades to the speakers. You could not hear the rear sound. I was thinking if the upgrade was big enough then the rear speakers would be a meaningful upgrade My wife wants to be able to enjoy her Red Hot Chili Peppers at high speed with the top down. I'm OK with no rear speakers as the BMW mod means taking cutting open the 2" opening to 4".

Rear speakers add to the quantity of the sound, but subtract from its quality.

 

[Z3M 10+ year member]

Great car! To be honest, I replied to the thread, because you seem to have the "right" automotive outlook and thought that you might want to hear from another car guy in your age bracket.

Every audio shop had us spending 1000's of $. They all wanted to cut, fabricate, customize the system....multiple amps top of the line stuff they sell. At 1st we were falling for it. Then it hits us. SQ....convertible....think about it. Then we found CarAudio.com. We can have SQ on our terms.

The PEQ would help you adjust the system's tonal balance for the environment and your personal taste, and time alignment would focus the soundstage. The difference is not subtle.

It appears to be able to manipulate the sound but use the idax305 we'd have to get Alpine's Imprint and a KTX-H100. We're back to realistic SQ as we'd be listening to mp3's and not CD quality......We could swing this equipment if we can find a spot in the dash for it.

Do you have all the gear and it's just a matter of installing it, or is there something missing from the system?

We don't have the HU or the component speakers. That's why we've been out here reading CA. We're gonna get the Hertz ESK-130 components unless there is some glaring issue with them powered by the PDX 4.150 amp we already have.

Rear speakers add to the quantity of the sound, but subtract from its quality.

We have no problem ditching the rear speakers. This would mean we'd have the Hertz ESK-130 2-way components and the 2 Hertz EV-130 woofers, powered by my PDX 4.150 and either the Alpine idax 305 or 9887. My son and I will be installing this equipment. Should be fun......I think. Especially if we have to run new speaker wire throughout the car. The amp goes in the truck....within a foot and a half of the car battery.

We'd be interested in your thoughts about these Hertz speakers.

ESK-130 http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/pdf_esk130.pdf

EV-130 http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/pdf_ev130.pdf

I appreciate your help and honesty. It's been very helpful.

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

Every audio shop had us spending 1000's of $. They all wanted to cut, fabricate, customize the system....multiple amps top of the line stuff they sell. At 1st we were falling for it. Then it hits us. SQ....convertible....think about it. Then we found CarAudio.com. We can have SQ on our terms.

Many shops have difficulty accepting the concept of car first, audio second.

It appears to be able to manipulate the sound but use the idax305 we'd have to get Alpine's Imprint and a KTX-H100. We're back to realistic SQ as we'd be listening to mp3's and not CD quality......We could swing this equipment if we can find a spot in the dash for it.

These are two separate and unrelated issues. Let me explain. There's no question that MP3s are lossy. Hell, even the guy who invented the coding thinks they're unacceptable for critical listening. MP3s simply lack the resolution of the original media. That lack of resolution, however, doesn't change the recording's tonal balance, nor does it influence the direct perspective of its staging.

You're probably asking what all this means to you. In a convertible, you're obviously facing a lot of noise. That noise - the combination of road/tire/drivetrain/exhaust - will cause random cancellations in the speakers' in-cabin response. Those cancellations will mostly manifest themselves from the lower mids on down. IOW, it'll sound very different and significantly worse when the car is at speed. The Imprint option won't help, as the car remains stationary during its configuration. In your case, not unlike mine, the system has to be tuned while the car is on the move. This is where a PEQ is extremely helpful.

I probably don't have to explain the benefits of time alignment, as I'm sure you've listened to a stereo system where you sat directly between the speakers, and then moved far to one side. It can make for a night and day difference in focusing the soundfield relative to a given listening seat.

To recap, yes, MP3s are limited, but those limitations won't impact your tuning constraints.

We don't have the HU or the component speakers. That's why we've been out here reading CA. We're gonna get the components unless there is some glaring issue with them powered by the PDX 4.150 amp we already have.

I don't see why you'd have a problem with the amp.

We have no problem ditching the rear speakers. This would mean we'd have the Hertz ESK-130 2-way components and the 2 Hertz EV-130 woofers, powered by my PDX 4.150 and either the Alpine idax 305 or 9887. My son and I will be installing this equipment. Should be fun......I think. Especially if we have to run new speaker wire throughout the car. The amp goes in the truck....within a foot and a half of the car battery.

Are you going with 4awg power wire?

We'd be interested in your thoughts about these Hertz speakers.ESK-130 http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/pdf_esk130.pdf

EV-130 http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/pdf_ev130.pdf

The ESKs look fine, but I'm a little concerned about the EVs. As I mentioned, I've never auditioned the speakers, so please take what I say as an educated guess. The EVs seem to be mid-woofers, not dedicated sub drivers. Typically, such drivers are crossed over at ~80Hz. There drivers are rated as high as 8K, which makes me think that their distortion components may be high if forced to extend relatively low.

I appreciate your help and honesty. It's been very helpful.

Glad to help out.