EQing and delaying your stage

[TDot 10+ year member]

I'm starting to learn real quick that EQing a car is different from EQing a studio, or a home stereo. Very, very tedious getting the stage to sound right in a car setting. Obviously taking into account the car, acoustics, space, speaker, levels of the different stages and subs, I'd like to see/hear how others here have their stages EQed.

Ex: Front stage rolled off at 200hz, +2db 5q @ 600hz, bell curve 8000-14000hz peak @ +5db.

Ex: Rear stage rolled off at 8000hz, +5db 8q @ 100hz, -8db 3q @ 1000hz.

Ex: Sub....you get the point.

If you're not able to do q on your EQ I guess skip that, also delays on speakers if you have that capability. Also, What you're trying to achieve in your overall stage, or within a particular eq....make kick/vocal/snare...front/rear stand out.

I couldn't find another post like this, so I'm hoping a lot of people will share, maybe someone can find that missing thing in their stage.

Click to read more...

 

[Beatin' 10+ year member]

For every day listening, I don't understand why people spend stupid amounts of money and time trying to EQ their system in a CAR of all things.

 

[dragnix 5,000+ posts]

It's a hobby. Like asking why guys spend thousands to make their daily driver fast when the speed limit is only 65

 

[Slayerx 10+ year member]

For every day listening' date=' I don't understand why people spend stupid amounts of money and time trying to EQ their system in a CAR of all things.[/quote']
Because it's what they enjoy. I spend lots of time in my car and have a passion and appreciation for music. Plus putting work into something and seeing, or rather in this case hearing the results, is satisfying.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

For every day listening' date=' I don't understand why people spend stupid amounts of money and time trying to EQ their system in a CAR of all things.[/quote']
I spend far more time listening music in car than elsewhere, so to me it's certainly important to have a flat frequency response. Yes, it can take time to tune, but there are processors that can auto tune and get most things right (Pioneer head units, Alpine processors, JBL MS-8, etc). As for time alignment, it's trivial to tune even by ear, and I wouldn't listen music in car without it now that I have tried it.

It's also important to realize that CAR definitely needs EQ to get things right. In home audio, you can spend >$1000 on a good set of tower speakers, and it can be expected that if you sit right in the center at a correct distance from the speakers, you will get relatively flat frequency response (overall, as well from each individual side) and good imaging. In car, even if you install +$1000 speakers, your frequency response and imaging will be screwed up because the speakers are at different distances from your ears, some drivers are severely off axis (6inch woofer suffers from beaming and will have a big dip above 2KHz off axis), the levels of tweeters and mids are almost certainly not calibrated out of box, reflections, etc. The car is the one that needs some serious tuning IMO. This somewhat surprises new folks when they ask "I got a new car, please recommend speaker update" and I tell them first to get a good DSP.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I'm starting to learn real quick that EQing a car is different from EQing a studio, or a home stereo. Very, very tedious getting the stage to sound right in a car setting. Obviously taking into account the car, acoustics, space, speaker, levels of the different stages and subs, I'd like to see/hear how others here have their stages EQed.
Ex: Front stage rolled off at 200hz, +2db 5q @ 600hz, bell curve 8000-14000hz peak @ +5db.

Ex: Rear stage rolled off at 8000hz, +5db 8q @ 100hz, -8db 3q @ 1000hz.

Ex: Sub....you get the point.

If you're not able to do q on your EQ I guess skip that, also delays on speakers if you have that capability. Also, What you're trying to achieve in your overall stage, or within a particular eq....make kick/vocal/snare...front/rear stand out.

I couldn't find another post like this, so I'm hoping a lot of people will share, maybe someone can find that missing thing in their stage.

In my case, there is no rear stage, just front running active with Pioneer DEH-80PRS. I let the head unit run its auto tune. It's time alignment settings for the front speakers are pretty close to what I got by tuning by ear. However, it adjusted the relative gains of all individual tweeters and woofers, and the EQ setup is really wonderful in the mid-range and treble region. The sound is very good and imaging is more consistent (to get imaging right, it's important to make sure the FR from left and right side is the same at frequencies above 1-2KHz, in addition to getting time alignment right). The head unit even picked a correct high pass setting for my HAT Imagine tweeters (it's recommended they use HP of 5KHz or higher, with sharp slope, the head unit chose 6.3KHz). I can only imagine/dream about what could possible be achieved with a 32-band equalizer, such as on JBL-MS8.

The head unit didn't do everything right. While the subwoofer "sounds" to my ear relatively flat and smooth, the subwoofer level is down 6-7dB from the baseline I prefer (fixed), and it chose the high pass on my woofers at 125Hz (fixed, moved down to 80Hz). The head unit did get the time alignment and phase for the subwoofer channel right. Being somewhat out of phase makes a little difference, but can be heard on the right track.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

I can only imagine/dream about what could possible be achieved with a 32-band equalizer, such as on JBL-MS8.

I'll try to be brief since this thread isn't about the MS-8, but the 31-band graphic EQ on MS-8 isn't the "meat and potatoes" of what it does. It does so much more with the automatic equalization, and the graphic EQ it lets you alter is there to shape the overall sound to the curve you prefer to hear. It tries to EQ the whole system flat initially.

Even when you have 31 bands of graphic EQ for each channel it isn't enough resolution if your RTA equipment includes a laptop. However, "good enough" on a competitive type of level is far superior to what most people find acceptable in the car.

When I set time alignment manually for 1 seat listening on a standard installation the subwoofer is left at 0 delay, the back left speaker gets the 2nd least delay, the front right speaker gets a moderate amount of delay, and the front left speaker gets the most delay. This might not work the same depending on the way your head unit/processor works, but that's the concept I learned when I was running Alpine head units. The goal is to get information recorded in mono to sound like it's all floating in one small area above the center of the dash. You can get a nice improvement even if you can't EQ left and right separately, but if you can get the frequency response of each side matching it makes the imaging a lot better than just time alignment alone can ever accomplish.

As for the overall sound I want to achieve, I use a curve similar to this:

Right now I have the hump on the bottom end rolling off to 0 by 500 Hz and it stays flat until 8 kHz. I like more zing on the treble and I like the bottom end a bit heavier handed.

 

[Beatin' 10+ year member]

yeah yeah I know it's a hobby and all.....

....but time alignment? Seriously? lololol:laugh:

In the years I've been listening to music, I've never said "gee wiz, I'm getting time alignment issues..."

maybe I can't notice these things? Maybe I'm better off...

I got infinity speakers that are all stock. I threw out the drivers side door speaker because the spider failed. I have no 6x9's in the back because they blew up. I have no EQ, proccessors, etc, and it's still satisfactory.

Could it be better with more equipment? Yeah............

Do I want to go that far? No.......

Sometimes good enough is good enough.

But anyway, here's my setup on my Sony Xplod HU.

Loudness: ON

Low: 0

Mid: 0

High: +5

Bal: 0

Fad: 0

Sub: 0

LPF: 160hz

HPF: 160hz

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rotflol.gif.b453361716769b8110ddefc85ff03cd2.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hilarious.gif.02a037aad04aa96f19982b298a3d70a8.gif

 

[av83 10+ year member]

yeah yeah I know it's a hobby and all.....
....but time alignment? Seriously? lololol:laugh:

In the years I've been listening to music' date=' I've never said "gee wiz, I'm getting time alignment issues..."

maybe I can't notice these things? Maybe I'm better off...

I got infinity speakers that are all stock. I threw out the drivers side door speaker because the spider failed. I have no 6x9's in the back because they blew up. I have no EQ, proccessors, etc, and it's still satisfactory.

Could it be better with more equipment? Yeah............

Do I want to go that far? No.......

Sometimes good enough is good enough.

But anyway, here's my setup on my Sony Xplod HU.

Loudness: ON

Low: 0

Mid: 0

High: +5

Bal: 0

Fad: 0

Sub: 0

LPF: 160hz

HPF: 160hz

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rotflol.gif.b453361716769b8110ddefc85ff03cd2.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hilarious.gif.02a037aad04aa96f19982b298a3d70a8.gif[/quote']

obvious troll.

 

[TDot 10+ year member]

i have to admit, when i first started playing with the delay i thought it was foolishness. then i looked it up to understand what it was really meant for and how to properly set it and holy $#!T. the sub got amazingly tight and the vocals "richer". i understand now why people who have "basic" systems and good speakers dont sound as good from inside the car...not that the delay is everything...but it seems to be a big part. im going to take some screen shots of my curves a little later. thanks for sharing all those that have, keep it coming.

 

[Beatin' 10+ year member]

isn't the time alignment/delay subject typically an issue with coaxles? how can you have such a problem with components spaced so far away from one another and possibly firing at different angles?

 

[neo_styles 10+ year member]

I actually learned yesterday that there's a step that plays a major factor before you even get into TA and EQ and that's in making sure your speakers are all at their optimum polarity. I found a thread on DIYMA (I know, I know, fack Ant and all that stuff) that actually got me MILES ahead of where I was before with staging. It's a good read and I think this really should be the first step before you consider TA. Unless, of course, you have a processor that does AutoTA/EQ.

A simple way to tune courtesy of cmusic....... - DIYMA Car Audio Forum

 

[Beatin' 10+ year member]

^^^^That's ridiculous. not to mention the part about tuning EQ with music. WTF? What if certain sounds were recorded softer or louder than in other songs? You're just going to screw everything up. What about the 2 passengers in the back? If everythig is tuned for the driver, then the passenger locations will not have optimum sound quality.

 

[neo_styles 10+ year member]

^^^^That's ridiculous. not to mention the part about tuning EQ with music. WTF? What if certain sounds were recorded softer or louder than in other songs? You're just going to screw everything up. What about the 2 passengers in the back? If everythig is tuned for the driver' date=' then the passenger locations will not have optimum sound quality.[/quote']
Look Negative Nancy. If you don't agree with what we're talking about here, GTFO. We're not telling you what you do is wrong and you're trying to call us ridiculous? There's a reason we're into SQ and you don't have to share it. Just stop, please.

 

[neo_styles 10+ year member]

Furthermore, you EQ to music because you FUCKING LISTEN to music. Of course in your case, I guess you want your test tones and pink noise to sound perfect.