Election 2012

[Proximity 10+ year member]

You didn't get to wherever it is you are all by yourself. Your success, anyone's success, that millionaire's success would not be possible without the society you live in, the society given to you by your government, the government that is paid for by tax dollars. The problem is that you see the world to simply, that you take government for granted. You don't realize that the opportunities that you got were only available because the government protects your economic liberties. For the mast majority of people, government doesn't limit liberty, it enhances it. It makes it possible.

And that millionaires money goes to supports the middle/working class that GAVE him the money in the first place.

And yeah, obviously why would ANYONE care about working when the government is just giving money away. That's why only.5% of people are working in this country...because there is just NO motivation to work right now with our uber socialist government...

This wealth redistribution **** is why a lot of the wealthier people in this country are going to say good bye and go to other countries that still believe in liberty and economic freedoms

Yeah, what countries are those? Our country is the LEAST socialistic of all the developed nations in the worlds. And like I said, taxes used to be WAY higher on the rich, but they didn't go anywhere.

 

[West]

I'm hungry...

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

I'm hungry...

Lets go to WAFFLE HOUSE!!!!.....lol

 

[West]

Lets go to WAFFLE HOUSE!!!!.....lol

I could go for some whisky n cokes and then a big *** omlett!

Or my arch nemesis... McDonalds...

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

you didn't get to wherever it is you are all by yourself. Your success, anyone's success, that millionaire's success would not be possible without the society you live in, the society given to you by your government, the government that is paid for by tax dollars. The problem is that you see the world to simply, that you take government for granted. You don't realize that the opportunities that you got were only available because the government protects your economic liberties. For the mast majority of people, government doesn't limit liberty, it enhances it. It makes it possible.
And that millionaires money goes to supports the middle/working class that gave him the money in the first place.

And yeah, obviously why would anyone care about working when the government is just giving money away. That's why only.5% of people are working in this country...because there is just no motivation to work right now with our uber socialist government...

Yeah, what countries are those? Our country is the least socialistic of all the developed nations in the worlds. And like i said, taxes used to be way higher on the rich, but they didn't go anywhere.

oh my God!!!!!!!..........mr obama is undercover on our forum!!!!.......you didn't build that!!!!!!

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

I never said we were a SOCIALIST country but from where I am standing we are damn sure headed that way......you are the one that mentioned how wealth redistribution is a good thing and I am just stating that it doesn't sound like a nation that is suppose to thrive on CAPITALISM...........Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than Socialism (wealth redistribution) EVER has!!.........now onto taxes

Oh and let me touch on the TAXES you brought up earlier......Yes tax rates used to be a lot higher but you are leaving out a key component of those higher rates, the deductions...When the tax rates were high there were tons of deductions people and businesses were allowed to take.....so the EFFECTIVE tax rate that everyone paid was LESS than it is now even though the RATE itself was higher....when almost all of the deductions were taken away and we went to a graduated tax rate system the EFFECTIVE tax you pay went up.........You probably ought to contact the school that taught you economics and tax policy to see if you can get your money back because you got ripped off.......peace

 

[Ignatowski 5,000+ posts]

I never said we were a SOCIALIST country but from where I am standing we are damn sure headed that way......you are the one that mentioned how wealth redistribution is a good thing and I am just stating that it doesn't sound like a nation that is suppose to thrive on CAPITALISM...........Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than Socialism (wealth redistribution) EVER has!!.........now onto taxes


Oh and let me touch on the TAXES you brought up earlier......Yes tax rates used to be a lot higher but you are leaving out a key component of those higher rates, the deductions...When the tax rates were high there were tons of deductions people and businesses were allowed to take.....so the EFFECTIVE tax rate that everyone paid was LESS than it is now even though the RATE itself was higher....when almost all of the deductions were taken away and we went to a graduated tax rate system the EFFECTIVE tax you pay went up.........You probably ought to contact the school that taught you economics and tax policy to see if you can get your money back because you got ripped off.......peace

you cant pay for liberal agenda with tea leaves,it takes capitalism to pay for all this free chit these

libtards want.....Libs want capitalism but with small profits for biz owners and spread the wealth mentality

but I got news for you libtards , that is not what people dream about when they (entrepreneurs ) decide

to take the risk and start a new biz - the dream of becoming rich !!!!!!! dumnutz!

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

^ That one is too easy. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
A) There aren't only 10 people in the world.

B) This isn't taking into account how the rich one gets rich. If he closes his business, then he's leaving a hole in the market (using the analogy) which someone else will pick up and then likely get wealthy themselves.

B) Taxes on the rich are a fraction of what they used to be. The top marginal tax rate in the 50s and 60s was 91%. This was when our economy was booming and our middle class was strongest. In the Great Depression and WWII it was over 70%. But then, rich people didn't pack up and move to Cambodia, did they? The world isn't what Ayn Rand writes in her books. So asking the rich to pay for SOME their tax breaks over the past 30 years won't wreck our economy. What WILL wreck it is what Romney wants, shouldering ALL of the burden on the working class. How can anyone be fore this approach?

And as for your socialism/grades analogy, no one is arguing for pure socialism. Just like no one is arguing for pure capitalism. Each would be equally catastrophic. A mixed economy, with some socialist policies that protect the worker/consumer, on a base of capitalism is the way to go. Is this so extreme?

And what does "just not show up at the table anymore" even mean, specifically? These things sound really good to stupid people who don't think about it, but if you think about it logically it completely falls apart.

It's funny, you have to use false WAY over simplified analogies to paint pictures of reality because there is no way to logically describe your false vision of the universe. If the conservative ideology was so slam dunk, you wouldn't need analogies. Try just using facts, that's what I do. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

No one ever paid 91%. You won't even find a liberal who will agree with that. The number of deductions allowed in the 1950s ensured no one actually paid 91%.

 

[Timmy13091 10+ year member]

Ya free subs !

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Well there you have it. It's not because the government is inherently less effective, it's because the BGC (you got the abbreviation wrong, your argument is now invalid) relies on volunteers.

If the government was so effective, why would there be a need for a BGC? (yes, you got me on the typo).

The reason is that the government tries to do hundreds and hundreds of things and cannot focus on doing any particular one exceptionally well. It's kind of like when businesses (gasp, businesses aren't perfect either) try to venture into too many different markets and lose their core competencies. It happens to individuals too...they try to do way too many things at once and instead of completing any particular task, they have 100 half finished projects.

 

[husker77 10+ year member]

It's funny, you have to use false WAY over simplified analogies to paint pictures of reality because there is no way to logically describe your false vision of the universe. If the conservative ideology was so slam dunk, you wouldn't need analogies. Try just using facts, that's what I do. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I use analogies so that progressive, educated folks like yourself can see how things actually work in practice.

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

This wealth redistribution shit is why a lot of the wealthier people in this country are going to say good bye and go to other countries that still believe in liberty and economic freedoms......This country wants to punish high achievers....That's ok after the majority of the high achievers are gone the freeloaders can pick each others pockets........I personally want everyone in this country to have the same opportunities but those opportunities should be earned not taken from someone else......I have busted my AZZ for 20 plus years now to get where I am in life and I be damned if someone is going to take it away from me just because they think they can or they think I don't deserve what I have PERSONALLY EARNED... Ask someone that has immigrated here from CUBA how that socialism shit works..............peace

Punish high achievement? The wealthy will be doing fine regardless of a realistic taxation rate. It's the middle/lower class that will be the folks struggling based on the rates. As Proximity stated, the government helped to foster many companies successes. It doesn't work the other way around? The governmental regulation doesn't support companies, yet these regulations helped to build them at the same time.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

You guys keep bringing this tax **** up.......are you aware that the top 1% of wage earners in this country only make 20% of the total income produced in this country every year but YET they pay 38% of the total taxes collected....are you also aware that 51% of wage earners in the US pay NO income tax....now you all talk about this fairness ****, does that sound fair.......when are the 51% ers gonna chip in and why is paying for the governments bullshit the wealthys job......the middleclass are suffering because of the policies put into play by this administration......You think its a coincidence that the more money this government spends the higher unemployment goes......

FDR tried this same stuff and it doesnt work.....he raised government spending levels up 83% and unemployment went up to 14% in 1937 and on up to 19% in 1939.........after ww2 the congress lowered taxes and reduced gov legislation and the economy starting bouncing back.......

I also find it comical that you guys think government builds businesses....here we go with the "you didn't build that ****"....I promise you sir government has crippled and destroyed way more businesses than they have helped...

And please get some facts before coming in here spouting off liberal talking points.....liberal arguments are as useless as my T I T S.........

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

You guys keep bringing this tax **** up.......are you aware that the top 1% of wage earners in this country only make 20% of the total income produced in this country every year but YET they pay 38% of the total taxes collected....are you also aware that 51% of wage earners in the US pay NO income tax....now you all talk about this fairness ****, does that sound fair.......when are the 51% ers gonna chip in and why is paying for the governments bullshit the wealthys job......the middleclass are suffering because of the policies put into play by this administration......You think its a coincidence that the more money this government spends the higher unemployment goes......

FDR tried this same stuff and it doesnt work.....he raised government spending levels up 83% and unemployment went up to 14% in 1937 and on up to 19% in 1939.........after ww2 the congress lowered taxes and reduced gov legislation and the economy starting bouncing back.......

And please get some facts before coming in here spouting off liberal talking points.....liberal arguments are as useless as my T I T S.........

Which way would you like to have it? Keep spouting off about the federal deficit, yet continue to hate when taxation issues appear. Wealth distribution is trending towards the top, the middle/lower class is being squandered. You seem so worried about the struggling economy. How will wealth concentrated in a small portion of the population help? We already have a goods/service surplus. The middle class ultimately pushes demand. Demand pushes employment.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

I am just stating that raising taxes will not lower the deficit unless this government stops all of the over spending...both parties are guilty of it......if we confiscated every dollar earned above $250,000 it would run our gov for 138 days.......so i want to know how raises taxes helps if you dont stop the spending......its kinda like cutting a hole in your aorta and then instead of patching the hole you rob blood from everyone else to feed an IV........we can not spend our way into prosperity