Debates last night

2. I don't necessarily think the draft will be put in place, but if it was...it'd be ridiculous.
It won't be, and the only slim chance it has of being implemented is if Kerry is in office.

4. Bush did run a defecit, EVERY single year in office. There's no possible way to debate this, and to me...there no a justifiable excuse, cuz that's all it is, an EXCUSE. Re-read the 6th page again.

-Evidence of surplus presented to Bush, then deficit made by Bush:

http://www.iht.com/articles/109911.html
Before '98, the last time the US had a surplus was '69. We only had a suprplus because the massive government spending of the 80's finally worked it's way into sprawling economic growth, as well as a change in labor. War + recession = deficit. I don't know why you're trying to call it an excuse, it's simple economics.

5. Bush himself didn't make the recession, but the decisions he made along with pre-war time accelerated a recession.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif Explain.

6. All countries are not going to like us ALL the time. Need to find a happy medium, and not totally defy knowledge/suggestions of our allies. There's no need to intentionally piss ALL allies off.
What's this have to do with Bush himself?

8. Why must a president, along with other people FORCE their opinions and beliefs (especially when they're based on THEIR religion) on other people. A LAW against it is RIDICULOUS. Others pointed out, they invent a new word for it b/c of the actual literal definition of marriage. That's fine with me. If you don't like homosexuals, you are well w/in your rights not to like them. It's not the government's right to discriminate or make laws against tht group tho. (I'd rather the government discriminates against hate groups, such as KKK and such. BUT, they are w/ in their first ammendment rights i guess also.)
I agree to an extent, I don't see how you can preserve the "sanctity" of the 50% of marriages that don't end in divorce, but your logic is flawed. Our constitution and a good amount of our laws can be traced back to religious beliefs. Besides, whether gay marriage is legal is within the states disrection. Vote on the 2nd to amend Ohio's constitution if you feel strongly, don't lash out on a scapegoat.

9. Can't dispute this, he is not an intelligent man. I think he needs to take some night classes at a local community college and brush up on his enlish/speech skills. I took a speech class in high school, they're offered in college. So, maybe he should seek to improve his communication skills, since communication is the key to everything.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif @ this being a serious argument

10. I'm not an expert on economic theories or outsourcing. But, the rate at which outsourcing is occuring is rediculous. Companies should not be encouraged to outsource.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6171353

 
ngsm13 we disagree on how the facts are interpreted. I guess that where I and Kerry supporters arrive at different conclusions.

You all probably know my stance by now on all the things that you and I listed out so there really isn't a need for me to speak on it unless someone would like me to which I doubt.

I believe everyone has their own belief system. Your belief system I call your religion. You may go by the beliefs of the bible, koran or the world. Now your belief system will determine what you consider right and wrong.

Hear is my thinking on abortion. I can't figure out why people don't consider it killing a baby. What is a baby made of? Answer sperm and an egg. Now it could be argued that the baby can not survive without the mother, which is true. But using that it could be argued that all oder people that have to be taken care of can be killed also by their care givers. Taken a step further a child that is 0-12 years old would die on the streets without the parents taking care of them. So if the care giver should be able to have them killed if they decide against supporting the child. Now these are my steps of thinking on it. I'm sure others disagree.

Now let's say you have an individual that is involved in the sale of drugs. They feel nothing is wrong with it. Others obviously do and that is why it is now outlawed. This persons belief system has been violated. My point here is regardless of what the laws are someones beliefs will be broken. Now it could be argued that the individual that is against the sale of drugs could just not sell drugs themself but it still has an indirect effect on that persons life.

ngsm13 I know you and I will rarely agree on issues because we take the facts and draw different results from them. You won't be sad in January 2005 I can tell you that ngsm13. I'm voting for someone other than Bush or Kerry. Once I do a little research I'll let you know who. My prediction tonight Edwards is going to rip apart cheney afterall he's an attorney and that's how he got rich.

 
I don't like any of the canidates this year. It will be my first year voting so I have had alot of the your vote counts register and vote crap. Granted I would like to use my right to vote, but the have to give me someone I want to vote for first.

On another note, who here is fed up with all the campaign ads. I might just vote for whoever has the fewest ads on TV. cause i think i am not going to be happy with either canidate(sp?)

 
as for the bush war with Iraq noone can say anything for the next 1-2 years. cause if iraq gets up and running and becomes useful to america in some way bush will have made the right decission regardless of WMDs or not.

 
as for the bush war with Iraq noone can say anything for the next 1-2 years. cause if iraq gets up and running and becomes useful to america in some way bush will have made the right decission regardless of WMDs or not.

If Kerry is elected I don't think he'll help Iraq out much and they be over run with islamic fascists and become a big enemy. I'd love to see Kerry prove me wrong.

 
as for the bush war with Iraq noone can say anything for the next 1-2 years. cause if iraq gets up and running and becomes useful to america in some way bush will have made the right decission regardless of WMDs or not.
Are you liberal or conservative? If you're more conservative I take american independant if you're a moderate go Bush. If you're liberal go Kerry. If you're liberal and into the environment and safety go nader.

 
This is my view on you vague generalizations...feel free to ask ANY other kerry supporter, and i'm sure they will be different. peace

NG
that was the most important part of my post in reply to joshpoints. And, about abortion...i am PERSONALLY against it. If my girl was pregnant, i wouldn't want her to get an abortion. But i don't believe it is my right to tell others what to do, or take away their right to choose. Again, i'm personally against it. That's just my view on it. peace guys.

NG

 
that was the most important part of my post in reply to joshpoints. And, about abortion...i am PERSONALLY against it. If my girl was pregnant, i wouldn't want her to get an abortion. But i don't believe it is my right to tell others what to do, or take away their right to choose. Again, i'm personally against it. That's just my view on it. peace guys.
NG
Kerry is definitely for you. He looks at things like that. He will say he believes a particular thing is wrong but does nothing to stop it because he feels he doesn't have the right to tell others what to do.

But for me this is not the way I look at stuff and that's why I don't fit with Kerry's outlook.

In the end you will be happy in January. I just hope Kerry isn't as extreme as I think he is. I will end with many liberal ideas sound great but because of man's imperfections it will never work out as well as it should.

 
Whoever the liberal was that said Iran is a bigger threat than Iraq may have been right. I'll explain when I get back from school.
There was a guy on the radio today don't remember his name but he was telling us in 1999 that we should watch out for Binladen because he was a major threat. Well it seems he was right about this but hopefully he is wrong about his latest statements. He stated that Iran has been seeking nuclear weapons for some time. They actually purchased the nuclear shell (this isn't the correct language I don't think) and that they have had the enriched uranium for a long time. Boy the media did a great job of telling us this. He said destroying the plant would be pointless because the weapons have already been completed. I missed the part of the show where he stated what we should do. I'd say our biggest danger is that we can't let islamic fascists get control of Iran. He also said evidence points to the terrorists already have suitcase nukes. He believes that they were purchased at the fall of the KGB. This doesn't sound very good at all. Binladen and other top leaders of the terrorist groups are very smart. I wonder when they plan on using them? At this point they are probably figuring out the best places to strike and the best way to get them into the country. I would think the best way would be through Canada on a truck which should get through fairly easily as trucks flow in and out between the counties with only a few getting spot checked thanks to NAFTA. THe next issue is getting it to Canada. It will be relatively easy for the terrorists to get into canada the tricky part will be getting the nuke overthere. I'm sure they have began studying this. It's probably easiest to get it over by cargo boat.

I hope this day doesn't come because I don't think we would take any action if it does happen. We will ask what have we done? Then we will say we can't go after the middle east because they aren't the enemy the islamic fascists are. The answer to what have we done is we aren't muslims. They have already told us this. So one possible solution that I know would work. We could declare ourself an islamic nation and all become muslim. This is all they really want. But with this MTV and other things that are considered evil will go.

 
that was the most important part of my post in reply to joshpoints. And, about abortion...i am PERSONALLY against it. If my girl was pregnant, i wouldn't want her to get an abortion. But i don't believe it is my right to tell others what to do, or take away their right to choose. Again, i'm personally against it. That's just my view on it. peace guys.
NG
Are you personally against it because you feel its murder?

 
Zane, did you skip the ENTIRE 6th page...namely the second half of it?!?!??! I made an attempt...albeit may not be perfect....at presenting numerous points. Most of my other posts in this thread were strictly feelings, i can have opinions and feeling about someone. BUT, 6th page i reformed my approach to this thread...so check it out...and take it easy.

I read it. I simply did not wish to waste my time replying to obviously misinformed left wing nonsense.

Exactly what was credible about it?

Richard Clarke? Please.

That man blames the Bush Administration for The events of Sept. 11.

Yeah, that's credible. I believe Mr. Clarke has had enough trouble this year.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/003/894kpvcp.asp

http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/003/916ljzvx.asp

The foreign policy that justifies this rationale is irresponsible, dangerous, and, as suggested by congressman Dr. Ron Paul, even unconstitutional:http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul113.html
Yes Mr. Paul would rather "play it safe" and pretend our UN Resolutions were working with Iraq.

Since Iraq was of no threat, it must be coincidence that the US halted Iraq's Nuclear Weapons Program in Operation Desert Storm, or that Iraq does actually have Uranium easily in their grasp.

http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/DeadlyArsenals/chapters%20%28pdf%29/16-Iraq.pdf

http://www.bullatomsci.org/research/collections/iraq.html

Right from the Nuclear Control Institute that there is no evidence of any Iraqi decree to halt their nuclear weapons program, and that Iraq has Uranium within it's borders.

http://www.nci.org/iraq/iraq511.htm

No weapons being found:

Sarin & Mustard Gas don't count then?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C120137%2C00.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1901043

Oh look, Iraq had Sarin Gas and used it before too!

Gulf War Syndrome ring a bell?

http://www.terrorismanswers.org/weapons/sarin.html

Guess there were a few weapons found huh?

Evidence of surplus presented to Bush, then deficit made by Bush: http://www.iht.com/articles/109911.html
The numbers on that site appear to be future speculations, rather than many current facts.

Mr. Bush's government spending does reflect a more liberal sytle than a Conservative Style.

Mr. Clinton attempted to balance the budget, not the national debt directly.

It's quite easy to see where Mr. Clinton achieved most of his so called "surplus," with all the Military and Intelligence funds that he slashed.....

http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/89/111/08_1_m.html

among other things.....

http://www.ncpa.org/~ncpa/pi/taxes/taxbook/taxbook8.html

We are at war. War costs money. Armor, Ammo, Food, Water, Cloths, Shelter, Maintenance, Communications, Salary, Equipment, Vehicles, Transportation, etc, etc, etc.


Propaganda. Complete and obvious.

Think about it.

The more money one makes, the more they pay in taxes.

The less money one makes, the less they pay in taxes.

Tax break time:

DUH! The people who pay in the most will obviously recieve the most back.

And Somehow this is called foul?

I'll break this down in simple logic for those who can not folllow:

If 3 people get on a bus, and all are required to pay 10% of their annual income to ride from the exact same current location to the exact same destination.

The first, a wealthy business man with an annual income of $100,000. He pays his 10% or $10,000 to ride.

The second, a middle class woman with an annual income of $10,000. She pays his 10% or $1,000 to ride.

The third, a struggling student with an annual income of $1,000. He pays his 10% or $100 to ride.

They begin their ride, and upon reaching their destination, the bus line says that there is a special this week, and they all are entitled to ride for half of regular price, and the difference will be refunded to them.

The first, a wealthy business man that paid $10,000 to ride. He recieves his half price refund of $5,000.

The second, a middle class woman that paid $1,000 to ride. She recieves her half price refund of $500.

The third, a struggling student that paid $100 to ride. He recieved his half price refund of $50.

The third cries foul, and feels entitled to more. He doesn't understand why he only gets $50 back, when his other traveling companions recieved more.

The second cries found and feels entitled to more. She doesn't understand why she should get less than the wealthy business man.

The first shrugs his shoulders and explains to them both: "Yes, I did recieve more money back from the bus line than either of you did. You must also understand, that I paid $10,000 to ride while you each paid either $1,000 or $100 to ride. Would you like to pay my ride fare next time?"

Tax breaks for the wealthy? Bullsh*t. Why are they not entitled to recieve their fair share back just like the rest of us?

Typical left wing propaganda.

Darn near that whole site is nothing but left wing drivel.

You yourself are using stereotypes and vague generalizations...epsecially when talking about the opposite side of the party than you.

Where?

I think I have been pretty specific in whom I am commenting towards, and more than patient with the liberal propaganda bandwagon.

I've wasted enough time on this matter for the moment.

and

I just finished watching Mr. Edwards get his arse handed to him courtesy of Mr. Cheney tonight for the second time.

God I love America!

 
And, about abortion...i am PERSONALLY against it. If my girl was pregnant, i wouldn't want her to get an abortion. But i don't believe it is my right to tell others what to do, or take away their right to choose. Again, i'm personally against it. That's just my view on it. peace guys.
NG

You and I agree to a point on this.

Wow. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/omg.gif.05aa02c3095d6ce9338996654eca0863.gif

I believe that life begins at conception.

I do not agree with abortion, based on my beliefs.

I do, however, believe that in some cases that it may be necessary.

I'll leave the decision on abortion with those who it may effect, and not pass personal judgement upon them, as that is IMO, a job for their maker to do.

Bottom line is simply this:

People just need to wake up, grow up, and take responsibility for their actions, and find some intelligence concerning action and consequence.

 
Yeah, I go to Case. The debate here was infinitely more entertaining than the Presidential debate, Cheney did a great job. He never got flustered, used actual facts and statistics to back up what he said, and consistently threw Edwards mistakes back in his face. Edwards didn't do as well as I expected, and he did a particularly bad job of differentiaing himself from Kerry....although that might have been his agenda. Plus for as much condemning he did of Cheney, I'm surprised he didn't call him out when Cheney said he had never met him before....although he was probably too focused on dodging the issue of him missing 90% of the votes in the Senate to make a quick retort.

And //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif @ Cheney going out of his way to thank the moderator and not Edwards. I love it.

 
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