Debates last night

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that means a lot... especially coming from you...

I don't know why i bother with your guys' thick skulls,

NG
I didn't even say anything controvercial or state any opinion, and your response was to attack me personally? Fine w/ me though, you just proved the point that you don't have any evidence or reasoning behind your argument, just emotion and rhetoric.

You might want to just stop before you blow a blood vessel in your brain. This is the part where I would respond to any points you made, BUT YOU HAVEN'T MADE ANY.

"If bush gets elected again, the country will go even further down the drain...and canada just might look like a good place"

"Honestly, bush only cares about rich people"

"So, if he rapes a girl...and everyone gets all up in arms about it, b/c that is popular opinion, he should stand by with the statement "I decided to do it, raping girls is ok"

"The Bush party has brain-washed you...and their plan worked...they are relying solely on SUPPOSED flip-flops"

The only thing you've proved is that you're emotionaly fragile and don't like Bush. Dont get pissed at me just b/c I point it out.

 
I didn't even say anything controvercial or state any opinion, and your response was to attack me personally? Fine w/ me though, you just proved the point that you don't have any evidence or reasoning behind your argument, just emotion and rhetoric.
You might want to just stop before you blow a blood vessel in your brain. This is the part where I would respond to any points you made, BUT YOU HAVEN'T MADE ANY.

"If bush gets elected again, the country will go even further down the drain...and canada just might look like a good place"

"Honestly, bush only cares about rich people"

"So, if he rapes a girl...and everyone gets all up in arms about it, b/c that is popular opinion, he should stand by with the statement "I decided to do it, raping girls is ok"

"The Bush party has brain-washed you...and their plan worked...they are relying solely on SUPPOSED flip-flops"

The only thing you've proved is that you're emotionaly fragile and don't like Bush. Dont get pissed at me just b/c I point it out.
"emotionally fragile"...LMAO, wtf are you talking about. You're god **** right i don't like bush...i fukkin hate him...if it was up to me...he'd be assassinated! So, you pointed out that i don't like bush...well great observation captain obvious. peace

NG

 
"emotionally fragile"...LMAO, wtf are you talking about. You're god **** right i don't like bush...i fukkin hate him...if it was up to me...he'd be assassinated! So, you pointed out that i don't like bush...well great observation captain obvious. peace
NG
Its like talking to a kid throwing a temper tantrum...

Leave the debate for the adults, or at least contribute something other than personal attacks on everyone who doesn't agree w/ you.

I didn't even want to get into this argument, I just thought it was funny to read a post as long as yours w/ absolutely no points made, so I pointed it out. Apparently your intelligence is a touchy subject for you.

 
I don't know why i bother with your guys' thick skulls, it's rediculous...

-All that matters is EVERYONE here is voting for who the hell they want to vote for...none of us will change eachother's mind...so i won't waste my time on the useless half of the voters here. If bush gets elected again, the country will go even further down the drain...and canada just might look like a good place. peace

NG
You're wrong, you don't know if everyone here already has their mind made up. There could be plenty of people reading this thread who choose not to respond simply because they haven't made up their mind. And you are doing a thoroughly pathetic job of conveying your stance, completely devoid of any rational thought. I've been attempting to have a discussion with you, where we can actually discuss the issues in a normal fashion, but all you can do is resort to propaganda. You mentioned Kerry's "supposed" flip flops - check the other thread where I provided numerous examples of him actually changing his mind on very serious things, all of which are documented. Care to address any of those? You mention that Bush is trying to bring the church and state together, without anything to back it up - I say that's why we have the House of Representatives, the Senate, and state constitutions to prevent a President from having his beliefs supersede the system. All you can say is we have thick skulls. You have no problem bashing Bush based on false assumptions, but can't provide one shred of evidence hinting that Kerry might do things better. All you can do is defend him by demeaning Bush, a la that atrocious **** analogy. You say that if Bush stays in office, the country will go further down the drain, implying that we are already going down the drain. Learn your history - anytime a President is in office during an economically devastating event (9/11), things will get very bad, very quickly. Keeping that in mind, the economic upturn that has been taking place over the last year and a half is impressive. Things will get better if the plans fully come to fruition; economics is cyclical. Your basic ECON103 course will tell you that. Would you like to cite something factual to bring a hint of credibility to your assinine claims? Or would you prefer to call half the voters here useless, completely undermining the process of voting? You disgust me.

 
It's simple, i have my opinions...that's why they are called that. I simply do not have the time to find that stuff right now, I have better stuff to do like go build my box for my 18XXX...so i'll be back later...and try to do some researching of facts...but i'm not promising anything. Also, where's the bush facts...why should i think that he ISN'T a dumbass??? peace

NG

::runs outside to make box, WOOHOO!!::

 
Its true that the tax cuts favor the rich, here is a link to read up on his tax cuts tax cut
Here is an excert i found most interesting from it.

"A new study released today by Citizens for Tax Justice and the Children’s Defense Fund reveals for the first time who stands to benefit from the 2001-enacted Bush tax cuts in each year from 2001 through 2010. Among the key findings:

Over the ten-year period, the richest Americans—the best-off one percent—are slated to receive tax cuts totaling almost half a trillion dollars. The $477 billion in tax breaks the Bush administration has targeted to this elite group will average $342,000 each over the decade.

By 2010, when (and if) the Bush tax reductions are fully in place, an astonishing 52 percent of the total tax cuts will go to the richest one percent—whose average 2010 income will be $1.5 million. Their tax-cut windfall in that year alone will average $85,000 each. Put another way, of the estimated $234 billion in tax cuts scheduled for the year 2010, $121 billion will go just 1.4 million taxpayers.

Although the rich have already received a hefty down payment on their Bush tax cuts—averaging just under $12,000 each this year—80 percent of their windfall is scheduled to come from tax changes that won’t take effect until after this year, mostly from items that phase in after 2005."
You guys also seemed to miss this VERY FACTUAL based information...read it again. Don't ignore it. peace

NG

::eek:k, now i'm leaving for my beloved box::

 
It's simple, i have my opinions...that's why they are called that. I simply do not have the time to find that stuff right now, I have better stuff to do like go build my box for my 18XXX...so i'll be back later...and try to do some researching of facts...but i'm not promising anything. Also, where's the bush facts...why should i think that he ISN'T a dumbass??? peace
NG

::runs outside to make box, WOOHOO!!::
I've posted plenty of links, I don't feel like finding them again. Besides, the burden of proof lies on your end. I never said anything regarding his intelligence, you did. Thus, it's your job to convince us.

 
Here's the bottom line, people: George W. Bush is a ****ing retard. The fact that anyone supports his reelection is ludacris. I've read your posts against Kerry and for Bush, and they are all, at best, horse shit. Take this one for example:

He also criticizes Bush for having a large deficit, but in the same breath wants to reduce taxes for the middle class, thusly raising the debt further.
Hi. My name is gauntlet, and I'm a mother ****ing moron. Here's a hint, in case you haven't figured it out: YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, *******. Kerry criticized Bush for having a 7 trillion dollar debt. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Kerry wants to reduce taxes on you (the middle class) and make the big ******* companies that Bush gave all the tax cuts to to pay what they should have been paying all along. You're tossing aside a 7 trillion dollar debt? "Oh, he got us 7000 billions of dollars in the hole, no prob, we'll just let that slide." Smart thinking. Since there are over 200 million people in th eunited states, you're personal share of that debt (on average) is over $20,000...So why don't you shell it out, dumbass? You can go ahead and pay for the mistakes of your president, I sure as hell don't want to.

Don't forget all the wonderful policies he claims he wants to add to help out those in need... At least for now anyway. I mean, reducing taxes and increasing spending is always a good thing, isn't it?
Obviously Bush thinks so. This is the same thing as the one above. Don't you get it? He reduces taxes on the wealthy businesses, and makes people like you handle more of the burden.

Here's another great one:

i respect a person who says he will do something and then do it.....
i respect a person who says one thing to my face and it's the exact same thing he said behind my back......

i respect a person who will, regardless of other people's opinions, do what he believes is right and stick to it

so yep, i do respect gw.....
Just because Bush is willing to 'do what he believes is right, regardless of other peoples' opinions' doesn't mean the very thing he is doing isn't wrong. "I'm wrong, but because I believe I'm right, I'll keep ****ing everyone over, because that is what I believe in." Sometimes you've got to take a long, hard, critical look at what you are doing, and if it is wrong, you change it.

Another:

At least the person currently in the White House has a backbone, and finishes what he begins rather than runs away.
In what way was the decision to go into Iraq Wrong?

Sarin & Mustard Gas were found. WMD's

Mass Graves were found.

A ruthless dictator was removed from power.

Millions of Iraqi People are liberated.
IT ISN'T YOUR BUSINESS TO POLICE THE WORLD, *******. If Germany decides that we are a threat (and we are, look at all the weapons we have) then according to what you say, Germany can invade our country and leave it in ruins without answering to anybody for it. You wouldn't like that, would you? NO.

Another thing I've noticed is that you ******* republicans like facts. Here's a fact for you:

In the original Kinsey *** survey, 94 percent of the men interviewed and 40 percent of the women admitted they'd masturbated.

Did that do you good? Are you almost at a climax from the pleasure that factual information caused you? I hope you aren't, because the way things are are the way things are. Just because you can cite some ridiculous fact doesn't do anything for the sake of furthering your postion in an argument. Arguments are based on principles, not statistics.

I provided some facts for you people in this post, but the thing is...I really didn't need them. Kerry is a better candidate, and I don't need shitty lines cut straight out of the debate to prove it: anyone is better than Bush. Don't give me this propaganda bullshit, either. The debt is from the war, I agree. George Bush pulled the war and the debt straight out of his ***, and I don't need any more of that. Speaking of changing shit around, what about the president? 'we need to go to war to get Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction.' When he started the war, went in and didn't find anything, he changed the focus and said it was about freeing the iraqi people. It's a joke, you people saying that that is important, because you don't give a **** about anyone in Iraq. I want to see you in uniform on the front lines, and then we'll see how much you really support the war (and I personally agree that their freedom is important, but the way things happened was not right). Why don't you explain the situation to some of the thousand+ soldiers killed in Iraq? Oh wait, YOU CAN'T. Their lives were worth more than what they died for: a poorly planned war manufactured by a poor, poor president.

KERRY EDWARDS 04'

 
Hi. My name is gauntlet, and I'm a mother ****ing moron. Here's a hint, in case you haven't figured it out: YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, *******. Kerry criticized Bush for having a 7 trillion dollar debt. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Kerry wants to reduce taxes on you (the middle class) and make the big ******* companies that Bush gave all the tax cuts to to pay what they should have been paying all along. You're tossing aside a 7 trillion dollar debt? "Oh, he got us 7000 billions of dollars in the hole, no prob, we'll just let that slide." Smart thinking. Since there are over 200 million people in th eunited states, you're personal share of that debt (on average) is over $20,000...So why don't you shell it out, dumbass? You can go ahead and pay for the mistakes of your president, I sure as hell don't want to.
Yes, resorting to name-calling and personal attacks before you even get to your argument. Wonderful, it really makes me take you seriously. But for the sake of argument, I will. Yes, the deficit is a problem. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say it was beneficial to the country. My point is that government spending will not solve the problem; you can't have it both ways. Since you seem to like math, how about this: deficit + spending more money = larger deficit. It's quite simple, really.

Obviously Bush thinks so. This is the same thing as the one above. Don't you get it? He reduces taxes on the wealthy businesses, and makes people like you handle more of the burden.
The majority of tax cuts for businesses are in the research and developemnt area, encouraging innovation, but that's neither here not there. After all, they are all just "big ******* companies" right? Anyways, thankfully for me, I make enough money to the point where paying taxes isn't a huge concern. Would I like to pay less money? Of course, I'm not insane, but taxes are a part of life. All the public amenities we have are a result of our tax money. If you detest it so much, you can move to another country where you will pay anywhere from two to five times the amount of taxes you pay now.

Ideally, I would love a middle-class tax cut, but I'd prefer securing the future (as much as can be expected) rather than saving a couple bucks now.

Just because Bush is willing to 'do what he believes is right, regardless of other peoples' opinions' doesn't mean the very thing he is doing isn't wrong. "I'm wrong, but because I believe I'm right, I'll keep ****ing everyone over, because that is what I believe in." Sometimes you've got to take a long, hard, critical look at what you are doing, and if it is wrong, you change it.
As I stated before, you can't change it (I'm assuming you're referring to the war, since you phrased your diatribe in such an unassuming matter it's impossible to ascertain what issue you are actually describing.) We voted on war, including your Godsend Kerry; you have to live with the consequences. You can't change what you've done and completely overhaul the policy based on new information. If you are referring to something else, please, do tell.

IT ISN'T YOUR BUSINESS TO POLICE THE WORLD, *******. If Germany decides that we are a threat (and we are, look at all the weapons we have) then according to what you say, Germany can invade our country and leave it in ruins without answering to anybody for it. You wouldn't like that, would you? NO.
If Germany believes we are a threat to them and they have exhausted all options and deem war necessary, then let them. I'm willing to bet whoever is in power here at the time will be willing to reach a compromise long before war is a necessity. I can't even believe I'm responding to this comparison, as our perceived threat to Germany is infinitesimal compared to the threat Iraq posed to us, thus it's completely irrelevant. Stick to reality.

In the original Kinsey *** survey, 94 percent of the men interviewed and 40 percent of the women admitted they'd masturbated.
Did that do you good? Are you almost at a climax from the pleasure that factual information caused you? I hope you aren't, because the way things are are the way things are. Just because you can cite some ridiculous fact doesn't do anything for the sake of furthering your postion in an argument. Arguments are based on principles, not statistics.
Yeah uhh....this doesn't make any sense. You're referring to a survey, not a fact. You are right though, arguments are based in principles, but statistics help solidify them. If you don't understand this concept, then I don't know what to say....although it's pretty obvious you do, seeing as you already used "facts" in a vain attempt to prove a meandering point.....which means you are not above using practices you condemn. Fantastic. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsupwink.gif.129404938effda6ad9cca39e7f4b58a3.gif

 
I didn't even say anything controvercial or state any opinion, and your response was to attack me personally? Fine w/ me though, you just proved the point that you don't have any evidence or reasoning behind your argument, just emotion and rhetoric.
You might want to just stop before you blow a blood vessel in your brain. This is the part where I would respond to any points you made, BUT YOU HAVEN'T MADE ANY.

"If bush gets elected again, the country will go even further down the drain...and canada just might look like a good place"

"Honestly, bush only cares about rich people"

"So, if he rapes a girl...and everyone gets all up in arms about it, b/c that is popular opinion, he should stand by with the statement "I decided to do it, raping girls is ok"

"The Bush party has brain-washed you...and their plan worked...they are relying solely on SUPPOSED flip-flops"

The only thing you've proved is that you're emotionaly fragile and don't like Bush. Dont get pissed at me just b/c I point it out.
I've given fact showing that some areas are really good for people right know. House buying is doing well and the economy's growth has been good. If you believe in socialism and the government giving the poor other people's money then I'd say Canada is a good place for you. Canada is having problems of their own with their socialized health care system. I didn't see the whole debate so I can't comment too much on it. I heard one part where Kerry said he had talked to people about their sons and daughters in the military and how they weren't fighting with proper equipment and that their families had to pay for certain bullet proof vests. Now I don't know how true that is but Kerry was the one that voted against the military spending because he wasn't for the war. Kerry's vote against the funding didn't hurt the president but it hurt the military. He unfortunately attacked the military instead of Bush. Now what worries me is he had to be smart enough to have seen this. It really leaves you with two possible reasons for his action 1. he's stupid or 2. he let his emotions get the best of him and lashed out towards the military by mistake when he was attempting to lash out against the president. My statement above in no way is partisan. If it was Gore in office and he had taken military action you don't say I disagree and vote against spending for the military and make the military suffer.

How is he going to gain other countries approval if he says we screwed up now please give us some of your citizens to die for a war at the wrong place and wrong time? I fear Kerry will lack the resolve to get anything accomplished while he's in office and I fear he will give up on the terrorist and believe it's a war we can't win so we'll cut military funds and increase taxes to support those that don't work and those that want their health care paid for by the people.

All that being said I believe people will vote Kerry into office and

-Increased gun control will result

-disastrous stem cell research will begin

-importing of medical drugs will begin driving americans companies that develop all the drugs out of the market

-increased taxes (for yes even me the poor) causing a slow down in economic growth, the best part is Kerry and Edwards just like any republican tax shelter their money.

-the definition of marriage will change rather than creating a new word

-the courts will be out of control

-tort lawyers will be out of control

 
Here's the bottom line, people: George W. Bush is a ****ing retard. The fact that anyone supports his reelection is ludacris. I've read your posts against Kerry and for Bush, and they are all, at best, horse shit. Take this one for example:
so the posts for both sides were horseshit or just the one's for bush? or maybe just this one?

Hi. My name is gauntlet, and I'm a mother ****ing moron. Here's a hint, in case you haven't figured it out: YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, *******. Kerry criticized Bush for having a 7 trillion dollar debt. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Kerry wants to reduce taxes on you (the middle class) and make the big ******* companies that Bush gave all the tax cuts to to pay what they should have been paying all along. You're tossing aside a 7 trillion dollar debt? "Oh, he got us 7000 billions of dollars in the hole, no prob, we'll just let that slide." Smart thinking. Since there are over 200 million people in th eunited states, you're personal share of that debt (on average) is over $20,000...So why don't you shell it out, dumbass? You can go ahead and pay for the mistakes of your president, I sure as hell don't want to.

so kerry is going to rush in and save the world from debt? how about putting himself and congress on social security? (even bush for that matter) instead of their golden fleece retirement plan which we pay for..or make them pay for it...btw...we will always pay for the mistakes of all presidents

Obviously Bush thinks so. This is the same thing as the one above. Don't you get it? He reduces taxes on the wealthy businesses, and makes people like you handle more of the burden.

Here's another great one:

Just because Bush is willing to 'do what he believes is right, regardless of other peoples' opinions' doesn't mean the very thing he is doing isn't wrong. "I'm wrong, but because I believe I'm right, I'll keep ****ing everyone over, because that is what I believe in." Sometimes you've got to take a long, hard, critical look at what you are doing, and if it is wrong, you change it.

ur right about one thing...if he is proven wrong, he should change. but at least he has the backbone to say what he thinks and do what he thinks is right. he's not just a puppet on a string

Another:

IT ISN'T YOUR BUSINESS TO POLICE THE WORLD, *******. If Germany decides that we are a threat (and we are, look at all the weapons we have) then according to what you say, Germany can invade our country and leave it in ruins without answering to anybody for it. You wouldn't like that, would you? NO.

let them try....but for real, it's been our job to police the world since 1913 or so. everytime a country gets in trouble, we have to bail them out. most of the free nations in the world are free because of us. without the U.S. , there probably wouldn't be a free country anywhere in the world..somone would always be under someone else's control

Another thing I've noticed is that you ******* republicans like facts. Here's a fact for you:

In the original Kinsey *** survey, 94 percent of the men interviewed and 40 percent of the women admitted they'd masturbated.

with ur attitude, i'd guess ur one of the 60 percent of women who were on their cycle at the time of the poll..or better yet...u are a "kerry"...94% admitted they do ..the other 6% lied..because the polls suggested that ************ wasn't really a popular thing

Did that do you good? Are you almost at a climax from the pleasure that factual information caused you? I hope you aren't, because the way things are are the way things are. Just because you can cite some ridiculous fact doesn't do anything for the sake of furthering your postion in an argument. Arguments are based on principles, not statistics.

I provided some facts for you people in this post, but the thing is...I really didn't need them. Kerry is a better candidate, and I don't need shitty lines cut straight out of the debate to prove it: anyone is better than Bush. Don't give me this propaganda bullshit, either. The debt is from the war, I agree. George Bush pulled the war and the debt straight out of his ***, and I don't need any more of that. Speaking of changing shit around, what about the president? 'we need to go to war to get Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction.' When he started the war, went in and didn't find anything, he changed the focus and said it was about freeing the iraqi people. It's a joke, you people saying that that is important, because you don't give a **** about anyone in Iraq. I want to see you in uniform on the front lines, and then we'll see how much you really support the war (and I personally agree that their freedom is important, but the way things happened was not right). Why don't you explain the situation to some of the thousand+ soldiers killed in Iraq? Oh wait, YOU CAN'T. Their lives were worth more than what they died for: a poorly planned war manufactured by a poor, poor president.

facts are what wins the arguement. without facts there is just arguement. principles may start the arguement, but the one with statistics or facts will win the arguement. the fact is, u can't argue with the truth.

 

u also say that gw needs to realize when he is wrong and change....then u say that we went to iraq to find WMD's, only to not find any(not as much as we thought). so gw changed and said that we were going to free the iraqi ppl from tyranny and oppression from a ruthless dictator. now ur saying that that is horseshit? what do u want from him? the fact is, regardless of why we are there, we are doing what is right. saddam was a threat once and would've been again.

 

lastly..u're challanging everybody to go to the front lines....why aren't u there? i tried, but mistakes in my past (criminal record), just having a GED and being married with child all added up to the fact that no branch would take me. subtract one of the three and i'd be there. what's ur story?

KERRY EDWARDS 04'




u know, someone said it earlier...we are going to vote to whomever we want...most of our minds are made up. why do some ppl insist on making a debate an arguement? is there really a need to flame one another over an opinion?

if we are going to have an debate over who is the best candidate, then each side needs to post facts about what they have done (myself included) and not from the other candidates mudslinging propoganda..but from an independant source. show me why kerry is better then bush..not spout off that he is better because gw can't talk on tv. and vice versa.

anyway, i'm through here.......lol

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 
If bush gets elected again, the country will go even further down the drain...and canada just might look like a good place. peace

NG
Move to canada then... The US would be a better place with one less liberal like yourself on board.

Anyone unstable enough to want to murder a president based on his improperly seeded 'feelings' truly doesn't need to be voting.

 
I've given fact showing that some areas are really good for people right know. House buying is doing well and the economy's growth has been good. If you believe in socialism and the government giving the poor other people's money then I'd say Canada is a good place for you. Canada is having problems of their own with their socialized health care system. I didn't see the whole debate so I can't comment too much on it. I heard one part where Kerry said he had talked to people about their sons and daughters in the military and how they weren't fighting with proper equipment and that their families had to pay for certain bullet proof vests. Now I don't know how true that is but Kerry was the one that voted against the military spending because he wasn't for the war. Kerry's vote against the funding didn't hurt the president but it hurt the military. He unfortunately attacked the military instead of Bush. Now what worries me is he had to be smart enough to have seen this. It really leaves you with two possible reasons for his action 1. he's stupid or 2. he let his emotions get the best of him and lashed out towards the military by mistake when he was attempting to lash out against the president. My statement above in no way is partisan. If it was Gore in office and he had taken military action you don't say I disagree and vote against spending for the military and make the military suffer.
How is he going to gain other countries approval if he says we screwed up now please give us some of your citizens to die for a war at the wrong place and wrong time? I fear Kerry will lack the resolve to get anything accomplished while he's in office and I fear he will give up on the terrorist and believe it's a war we can't win so we'll cut military funds and increase taxes to support those that don't work and those that want their health care paid for by the people.

All that being said I believe people will vote Kerry into office and

-Increased gun control will result

-disastrous stem cell research will begin

-importing of medical drugs will begin driving americans companies that develop all the drugs out of the market

-increased taxes (for yes even me the poor) causing a slow down in economic growth, the best part is Kerry and Edwards just like any republican tax shelter their money.

-the definition of marriage will change rather than creating a new word

-the courts will be out of control

-tort lawyers will be out of control

I agree with your post all execpt whats in the bold.. I don't believe our economy is doing that well and i don't like to be a pessmist over the issue though. The fact is that our gdp is up by 3% but it has gone down since 2003 which isn't good. GDP

Far as house buying im not going to argue the interst rates are at a 40 year low but according to greenspan that if we have economy growth then the intrest rates go up. greenspan

 
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