Debates last night

[anaranchi 10+ year member]

Yesterday was Kerry’s day.

I don’t know who to vote for this time, it seems like a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea.

 

[phoneman 10+ year member]

Bush was tired. He had been out all day campiagning.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

He also criticizes Bush for having a large deficit, but in the same breath wants to reduce taxes for the middle class, thusly raising the debt further.

Don't forget all the wonderful policies he claims he wants to add to help out those in need... At least for now anyway.

I mean, reducing taxes and increasing spending is always a good thing, isn't it?

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

Wow, I haven't met too many people that vote on "hard-headedness" you must feel smart.
Learn the issues, learn where people stand, then vote. Otherwise sleep all day on the 2nd please.

what's with the smartass attitude?

yeah, i respect a person who speaks his mind regardless of the consequences...

i respect a person who says he will do something and then do it.....

i respect a person who says one thing to my face and it's the exact same thing he said behind my back......

i respect a person who will, regardless of other people's opinions, do what he believes is right and stick to it

so yep, i do respect gw.....

and yeah, i'd rather have hardheaded in the white house instead of follow the popular trend...kinda like this forum...are u using re subs?? ( no disrespect intended towards re)...were u on the eD bandwagon?....if so..then u'll like kerry more then bush....he changes with the tides as well..

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[TwistedVisions 10+ year member]

He also criticizes Bush for having a large deficit, but in the same breath wants to reduce taxes for the middle class, thusly raising the debt further.

I had mentioned a similar statement before in another politic thread we had here just a few days ago. Its a concept alot of people aren't grasping is that in order to get out of this debt there has to be taxes and even when taxes do go up how do you get out of debt when in it by the trillions? The truth is that i doubt we ever will but yet we remain the richest country..ironic isn't it. It seems though from the debate that alot of the other issues besides war wasn't really talked about. For instance, global warming. I know kerry had "mentioned" it but didn't go into detail but is a very serious issue. I don't want to get to far off topic and start talking about it but its just a point that with the war going on and having to worry about terriorist it seems we our losing focus on other issues that could pose a problem in the near future.

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Most of his "flip flops" were a change in decision based off of new information or changing circumstances, not indecisiveness. We're all in trouble if the person in the White House is so "set in their ways" that they stand by their decision, even if it is now the wrong decision.
And again, I'm against Bush due to his inability to separate his religion from his job as America's president, but I'm not really "for" Kerry

And an individual who's too stubborn to admit that he's done a few things wrong, won't respect the opinions of other countries, and and won't change plans that clearly haven't worked has a place in the White House?

The thing is, with this situation, you have to stand by your decision. Foreign policy is one issue that both parties have very similar stances on, evidenced by even the most liberal democrats in the Senate being pro-war after 9/11. Hell, Kerry himself was pro-war four years before 9/11, saying that if using unilateral force was necessary to remove the threat that Iraq poses, then so be it. That was before intelligence reports stated that there was a good possibility of there being WMD's in Iraq (again, remember it was the CIA that developed these reports; Bush acted accordingly, and any other commander-in-chief would have done the same thing.) Regardless of who was the President, we would have gone to war and we would still be there. You can't devote 2 years and $100 billion to removing the threat of terrorism (still a work in progress, pretty much always will be), and then leave at the drop of a dime 1/10 of the way through the reconstruction process just because popular opinion has swayed. Imagine if the colonists, sick of losing battle after battle during the Revolutionary war, decided to stop the cause and withdraw troops right before France came in to aide us. You simply can't be a commander-in-chief if you constantly overhaul your policies that have been set in motion in a rash reaction to popular opinion.

. He needs to quit worrying about waffles (aka supposed flip-flops) and worry about educating himself. peace
NG

Bush needs to learn to cut his losses, jut like he did with the numerous companies he drove into the ground. Popular opinion eh? So, if he rapes a girl...and everyone gets all up in arms about it, b/c that is popular opinion, he should stand by with the statement "I decided to do it, raping girls is ok." OR If he steals money from a govt. fund, and gets taken to court, b/c popular opinion is against stealing, he should stand by and say "I did it, i think stealing is ok."

...According to YOUR flawed logic...that's how it should be. The Bush party has brain-washed you...and their plan worked...they are relying solely on SUPPOSED flip-flops, that's all bush wanted to blabber about the entire debate...and that's all you FOOLS are blabbering about now. BE ORIGINAL, don't follow republican "popular opinion" as you've called it.

I mean, reducing taxes and increasing spending is always a good thing, isn't it?

According to our current president...it sure is!

Separation of Church & State has gone incredibly further than I believe the framers of our constitution intended it.
That is another issue however. In this situation regarding Mr. Bush,

How has he not separated those issues?

Are you now forced to be a Christian?

Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush both ended their closing statements in the debate, and at most stops along the campaign trail with the words "God Bless."

Yep, he sure isn't separating them.

So, now you feel it's necessary to speak on behalf of the framers of the constitution? WOW, i didn't know you guys were such good friends.

-No one is forced to BE christian, but he's trying to force people to obey conservative christian beliefs. A person should be able to marry whoever they want, i don't care if you don't like it. I don't care if you think the person is a "***", or if you personally hate them. A belief based highly on conservative christianity should never be proposed as a law. We came to this country for freedom of religion, we have christians, islams, buddhists, satanists, people that worship pop-tarts...yet they suggest making a law based highly on conservative christian beliefs. LUDICROUS, take your hate and biggotry somewhere else.

Honestly, bush only cares about rich people...and if you disagree you're full of shit just like your president is. He needs to go back to Texas, and have fun twiddling his thumbs and playing with his horsies. I stand by the fact that, if there was a gun point at my head...i still wouldn't vote for bush. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

NG

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

So, now you feel it's necessary to speak on behalf of the framers of the constitution? WOW, i didn't know you guys were such good friends.

-No one is forced to BE christian, but he's trying to force people to obey conservative christian beliefs. A person should be able to marry whoever they want, i don't care if you don't like it. I don't care if you think the person is a "f a g", or if you personally hate them. A belief based highly on conservative christianity should never be proposed as a law. We came to this country for freedom of religion, we have christians, islams, buddhists, satanists, people that worship pop-tarts...yet they suggest making a law based highly on conservative christian beliefs. LUDICROUS, take your hate and biggotry somewhere else.

NG

***= that above.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

According to our current president...it sure is!

Have you looked (well, you obviously haven't) at the BILLIONS Kerry is looking at spending "When I get elected?"

Oh, and then cut taxes for the middle class?

Where the **** is the money coming from?

Honestly, bush only cares about rich people...and if you disagree you're full of shit just like your president is. He needs to go back to Texas, and have fun twiddling his thumbs and playing with his horsies. I stand by the fact that, if there was a gun point at my head...i still wouldn't vote for bush. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

NG

You are about as full of shit as it gets. As soon as you stop trying to use your feelings to make decisions of state, things will look more clear for you.

 

[TwistedVisions 10+ year member]

Have you looked (well, you obviously haven't) at the BILLIONS Kerry is looking at spending "When I get elected?"
Oh, and then cut taxes for the middle class?

Where the **** is the money coming from?

You are about as full of shit as it gets. As soon as you stop trying to use your feelings to make decisions of state, things will look more clear for you.

Its true that the tax cuts favor the rich, here is a link to read up on his tax cuts tax cut

Here is an excert i found most interesting from it.

"A new study released today by Citizens for Tax Justice and the Children’s Defense Fund reveals for the first time who stands to benefit from the 2001-enacted Bush tax cuts in each year from 2001 through 2010. Among the key findings:

Over the ten-year period, the richest Americans—the best-off one percent—are slated to receive tax cuts totaling almost half a trillion dollars. The $477 billion in tax breaks the Bush administration has targeted to this elite group will average $342,000 each over the decade.

By 2010, when (and if) the Bush tax reductions are fully in place, an astonishing 52 percent of the total tax cuts will go to the richest one percent—whose average 2010 income will be $1.5 million. Their tax-cut windfall in that year alone will average $85,000 each. Put another way, of the estimated $234 billion in tax cuts scheduled for the year 2010, $121 billion will go just 1.4 million taxpayers.

Although the rich have already received a hefty down payment on their Bush tax cuts—averaging just under $12,000 each this year—80 percent of their windfall is scheduled to come from tax changes that won’t take effect until after this year, mostly from items that phase in after 2005."

 

[B_Master_Flash 10+ year member]

Bush needs to learn to cut his losses, jut like he did with the numerous companies he drove into the ground. Popular opinion eh? So, if he rapes a girl...and everyone gets all up in arms about it, b/c that is popular opinion, he should stand by with the statement "I decided to do it, raping girls is ok." OR If he steals money from a govt. fund, and gets taken to court, b/c popular opinion is against stealing, he should stand by and say "I did it, i think stealing is ok." ...According to YOUR flawed logic...that's how it should be. The Bush party has brain-washed you...and their plan worked...they are relying solely on SUPPOSED flip-flops, that's all bush wanted to blabber about the entire debate...and that's all you FOOLS are blabbering about now. BE ORIGINAL, don't follow republican "popular opinion" as you've called it.

According to our current president...it sure is!

So, now you feel it's necessary to speak on behalf of the framers of the constitution? WOW, i didn't know you guys were such good friends.

-No one is forced to BE christian, but he's trying to force people to obey conservative christian beliefs. A person should be able to marry whoever they want, i don't care if you don't like it. I don't care if you think the person is a "***", or if you personally hate them. A belief based highly on conservative christianity should never be proposed as a law. We came to this country for freedom of religion, we have christians, islams, buddhists, satanists, people that worship pop-tarts...yet they suggest making a law based highly on conservative christian beliefs. LUDICROUS, take your hate and biggotry somewhere else.

Honestly, bush only cares about rich people...and if you disagree you're full of shit just like your president is. He needs to go back to Texas, and have fun twiddling his thumbs and playing with his horsies. I stand by the fact that, if there was a gun point at my head...i still wouldn't vote for bush. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

NG

There you have it. 100% pure, un-cut rhetoric. There's not a morsel of substance in that whole post.

 

[Gauntlet 5,000+ posts]

So, now you feel it's necessary to speak on behalf of the framers of the constitution? WOW, i didn't know you guys were such good friends.-No one is forced to BE christian, but he's trying to force people to obey conservative christian beliefs. A person should be able to marry whoever they want, i don't care if you don't like it. I don't care if you think the person is a "***", or if you personally hate them. A belief based highly on conservative christianity should never be proposed as a law. We came to this country for freedom of religion, we have christians, islams, buddhists, satanists, people that worship pop-tarts...yet they suggest making a law based highly on conservative christian beliefs. LUDICROUS, take your hate and biggotry somewhere else.

Honestly, bush only cares about rich people...and if you disagree you're full of shit just like your president is. He needs to go back to Texas, and have fun twiddling his thumbs and playing with his horsies. I stand by the fact that, if there was a gun point at my head...i still wouldn't vote for bush. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

NG

Seriously man, do you have any idea what you're talking about?

1) The framers of the constitution held church and state much closer together than is currently being done....hell, it was a crime for women to bear a child out of wedlock, Indians were slaughtered mercilessly at our discretion simply because they wouldn't convert. Half of our laws currenly in place were lightly based on "conservative christian beliefs", so your logic doesn't make sense. You would have a point about marriage, if any propsed law didn't have to go through the House of Representatives and the Senate first, in addition to state legislatures being able to amend their respective constitutions. Had you watched the news at all this week, you would know that Ohio is geting ready to vote on this issue on the 2nd.

2) We came to this country for freedom of religion? Get the fu*k out of here. Columbus came here for gold and personal gain. If you think otherwise, you simply don't know your history.

3) Bush only cares about rich people? What about the family tax cut he just increased and extended? Da*n, you're right, even though it says it's going to help families, it's really going help the wealthy CEO's of this nation. I am so brainwahsed //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

If you ever want to have an intelligent debate where you actually bring up facts rather than propaganda, please let me know.

 

[nosaj070 10+ year member]

Everyone has their panties in a wad over this budget defeict. Its not a big deal, its not like we are going to run out of money, countries throw us money like mad. You cannot concentrate on getting out of your budget defeict when you are in a war. There is no way it will really ever afffect you, granted maybe your taxes will go up slightly at some point in time, who gives a shit. The defecit is really no reason to vote for either president, because its not going away either way, and it does not really matter.

 

[swimfreak26 10+ year member]

2) We came to this country for freedom of religion? Get the fu*k out of here. Columbus came here for gold and personal gain. If you think otherwise, you simply don't know your history.

And you simply don't know who WE are. We are not columbus who came here in 1492....yes the 1400's, and when was this counrty founded? Hmmm....1776? That's not over 200 years later is it? Holy shi.t! I can see your argument now too, well he's the reason that we all came over here, he opened the path. Well that could very well be true, the problem there lies within the fact that going under that perception, you have to say Mexicans are coming here now because George Washington came here just over 200 years ago. We are the immigrants of the modern world, if you follow your ancestry back you're probably not spanish (100%), and for that you're argument is complete poo, sorry. People now-a-days do come to this country for the freedom to choose their own religion.

3) Bush only cares about rich people? What about the family tax cut he just increased and extended? Da*n, you're right, even though it says it's going to help families, it's really going help the wealthy CEO's of this nation. I am so brainwahsed

I won't even explain this, read a few posts above about the tax cuts that HAVE been put into place, not the ones that he's talked about for years, and is talking abotu more right now because he needs to look good in front of the voters

 

[Gauntlet 5,000+ posts]

And you simply don't know who WE are. We are not columbus who came here in 1492....yes the 1400's, and when was this counrty founded? Hmmm....1776? That's not over 200 years later is it? Holy shi.t! I can see your argument now too, well he's the reason that we all came over here, he opened the path. Well that could very well be true, the problem there lies within the fact that going under that perception, you have to say Mexicans are coming here now because George Washington came here just over 200 years ago. We are the immigrants of the modern world, if you follow your ancestry back you're probably not spanish (100%), and for that you're argument is complete poo, sorry. People now-a-days do come to this country for the freedom to choose their own religion.

And the colonies were founded by the British to be an economic appendage to their empire and to get to the impoverished out of their country. Everything is inter-related. What's your point? Freedom of religion exists. Gay marriages are left up to the discretion of the voters, should your state legislature attempt to amend it's respective constitution. If you want to get technical, the legal defintion of marriage is a union between a man and a woman, so in that sense, it's not even an issue of religion. I don't see where you are going with this.

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Have you looked (well, you obviously haven't) at the BILLIONS Kerry is looking at spending "When I get elected?"
Oh, and then cut taxes for the middle class?

Where the **** is the money coming from?

Bush did the exact same god **** thing...xcept...like STATED WITH FACT...he gave the majority of tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% of the world...

......

There you have it. 100% pure, un-cut rhetoric. There's not a morsel of substance in that whole post.

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that means a lot... especially coming from you...

I don't know why i bother with your guys' thick skulls, it's rediculous...

-All that matters is EVERYONE here is voting for who the hell they want to vote for...none of us will change eachother's mind...so i won't waste my time on the useless half of the voters here. If bush gets elected again, the country will go even further down the drain...and canada just might look like a good place. peace

NG