Capacitors Aren't Useless

[LDW3RD 10+ year member]

Didn't Richard Clark have a $10,000 challenge if you could prove the effectiveness of a capacitor to him?

it was if you you could hear the difference between 2 equally powered amps barring croosovers and other on board effects.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Richard Clark was one of the first to use capacitors (ie. for power conditioning in his "legendary" Buick Regal)..Clark and David Navone even designed "stiffening" capacitors for Monster.

He neither built the GN nor installed the capacitors in it. Thanks for playing. He and Navone sold the rights to "Autosound 2000" to Monster Cable to be used on the caps. It was a way to make money. Nothing more.

His test regarding the effectiveness of capacitors, at the time dealt with LARGE caps with LOW ESRs, which did make them useless....as a battery/alt replacement.

And here you prove once again that you know not of which you speak. Low ESR is a GOOD thing and his major point regarding caps sold a car audio caps had too high a ESR to be of any use for anything. The caps that were in the GN were very small and there were a lot of them. Nothing like anything ever sold as a "stiffening" cap.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

it was if you you could hear the difference between 2 equally powered amps barring croosovers and other on board effects.

There were several challenges. Caps had nothing to do with any of them.

 

[Bobby322 10+ year member]

how much are capacitors? How hard to install?

 

[shavenblazer 10+ year member]

They cost like 1,000 dollars and need to be installed by a pro.

 

[Bobby322 10+ year member]

Gotcha buddy

 

[XHiFiX 10+ year member]

He neither built the GN nor installed the capacitors in it. Thanks for playing. He and Navone sold the rights to "Autosound 2000" to Monster Cable to be used on the caps. It was a way to make money. Nothing more.


And here you prove once again that you know not of which you speak. Low ESR is a GOOD thing and his major point regarding caps sold a car audio caps had too high a ESR to be of any use for anything. The caps that were in the GN were very small and there were a lot of them. Nothing like anything ever sold as a "stiffening" cap.

Thanks for catching that mix up. Will edit. Yes, it's the Big caps with the HIgh ESRs that were tested by Clark, not the usual 1 farad electrolytic caps with low ESR.

 

[XHiFiX 10+ year member]

He neither built the GN nor installed the capacitors in it. Thanks for playing. He and Navone sold the rights to "Autosound 2000" to Monster Cable to be used on the caps. It was a way to make money. Nothing more.

Ok, if you want to nitpick. Even though SpeakerWorks built the system in the Grand National, capacitors WERE used in it, which I'm sure you knew, right? Duh. And after buying that GN, RC used it to win an AMAZING number of pro competitions again, and again, and again... with all those wins, trophies, prizes, and accolades for that system, I don't think many people could argue (including the judges, listeners, and contestants) that it was "FAIL" to have caps in its design...

Just for reference

The SpeakerWorks Buick
In 1988, another superstar car was introduced to the car audio world. The 1986 Buick Grand National (Installations April '89 and August '92) built by SpeakerWorks in Orange, California (and later sold to Richard Clark), is believed to be the only vehicle ever to retire undefeated from the pro division of the national sound-off circuit.

The bad black Buick won the Alpine Car Audio Nationals II Pro Unlimited (751 watts and up) division in '88, and IASCA's Pro unlimited title in '89, '90, and '91 before being retired by Clark.

"It's the winningest car of all time in the Pro category," said Clark, who keeps the car in storage in North Carolina. "It was totally undefeated, and its design had a big impact on the way things are done today."

SpeakerWorks The SpeakerWorks Buick was "the winningest car" in IASCA's Pro division, according to Richard Clark. The system featured two 15-inch subwoofers behind the rear seat, and a 12-inch sub in each rear side panel.

According to Eric Holdaway, whose family owns SpeakerWorks and designed the original system, the speaker locations in the Buick were a pioneering concept.

"People thought we were nuts to put speakers in the kick panels," said Holdaway. "Our goal was to maximize the pathlengths for better imaging and staging. It was a groundbreaking approach that most top installers are following today."

The all-stealth Buick, equipped with only six speakers and nearly 5,000 watts of power, won four national titles and consistently hit 140+ dB. "I won $60,000 in prize money in one year with that car," said Clark.

http://www.termpro.com/showcars/terminator/ca1096.html

And helo, the last word I'll say to you is that other than flaunting your technical knowledge of how things work (in all perfect circumstances), have you actually proven that caps are totally useless? No. You've only added your If's, And's or But's to the equation to fit your bias, but you've simply missed the whole point of my original post, that capacitors are not useless. You even agreed that they do filter AC, which is what I'm using it for lol. So thanks for some interesting discussion. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

You can't prove a negative. You can't say that the GN would have sounded worse without the caps. For the same reason, you can't say that they improved the sound. RC himself would tell you as much. They were a gimmick. If you knew the autosound competition circuit and the rules at that time, anything "different" or "unique" whether it impacted the sound of the system or not, got you points from the judges. That was the purpose that the caps served in that install: points.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

When the 'inventor' himself Richard Clark (the first man to add external caps to a 12volt audio system) preaches about the gimmicky nature of the manufacturer's advertising of the product, that should tell you something.

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

somehow i totally forgot...

these threads go on and on forever with usually one or two people arguing about how great caps are and the entire world telling them exactly how and why they are useless, yet these few people still swear by them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif .

why did i subscribe to this //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[headless 10+ year member]

You even agreed that they do filter AC, which is what I'm using it for lol. So thanks for some interesting discussion.

Filter ac, what, like your batteries already do? Did you have nasty AC noise in your speakers before you added a cap? No? Then what did the cap filter out that your batteries didn't already?

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

Of course. Especially on this site //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

He is correct. Capacitors are good as a filter. But as a fix for dimming, no.

actually, you could put the cap on the positive/neg connection directly at your headlights and it would reduce dimming //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Kinda the wrong way of going about it though.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

actually, you could put the cap on the positive/neg connection directly at your headlights and it would reduce dimming //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
Kinda the wrong way of going about it though.

I say better batts & bigger wire might be the solution.