venom107
violator5spd
10+ year member
Post Wh0re Hunter
I would check out the RE SE's first... http://www.respl.com , I know they're a little more expensive, but I think you'll be happier in the end.
violator5spd
10+ year member
Post Wh0re Hunter
RE...SQ...???
I heard they are more SPL...
anyways, you should ask about Adire Audio Shivas, i've never heard them before but i'm assuming they may hold up with those bahns in SPL but i know for sure they would knock their socks of when it comes to SQ....and they're somehting like $100 each
I heard they are more SPL...
anyways, you should ask about Adire Audio Shivas, i've never heard them before but i'm assuming they may hold up with those bahns in SPL but i know for sure they would knock their socks of when it comes to SQ....and they're somehting like $100 each
paikiah
5,000+ posts
Wangaholic
Time for jlaine to step in about now...
violator5spd
10+ year member
Post Wh0re Hunter
Sure, i know some stuff, but a fella who goes by the name Jlaine can really explain it to you and make great sense of it...so I'll leave it to him or another willing person
paikiah
5,000+ posts
Wangaholic
I only know a teensy weeny bit about oldschool rockfords...my signature says it all...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
LoneRanger
10+ year member
Old Yamahas Give Me Wood
shiva is nowhere near the 1200Q in SPL.....i don't care if the virgin mary herself came down and built your box for you, it wouldn't touch a properly installed 1200Q in SPL. however, if you like SQ, the shiva is the champion in that department. I don't know why people keep comparing these subs to each other....it's really not a good comparison at all. The way I see it, the shiva is a great sub for the price because it puts out decent SPL while maintaining a good bit of SQ, but it doesn't do either exceedingly well. The 'bahn is all out SPL, and probably about the loudest sub you'll find for $100-$150.....but you have to sacrifice a lot of SQ because of the heavy surround and cone.
If your old box is 2.5-5 cubic feet per sub, you're okay. If not, you're gonna need to get a new one to run the 'bahns. As far as power goes, they need at least 300w each to sound good, but will handle 1000+w of clean power each in a ported box.
If your old box is 2.5-5 cubic feet per sub, you're okay. If not, you're gonna need to get a new one to run the 'bahns. As far as power goes, they need at least 300w each to sound good, but will handle 1000+w of clean power each in a ported box.
jlaine
10+ year member
Vaporware
Of course, you've done a proper, detailed head-to-head comparison on this matter to be able to say this right... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
Needless to say, audiobahn's lack of T/S parameters, their bogus sensitivity ratings, the lack of surface area on the cone of the driver, gives me plenty of weight to say that this comparsion is invalid, and any attempt to say one is louder than the other is false until proper parameters are available, or proper testing has been done on both.
Identical install, identical power, identical mic placement. Otherwise, the virgin mary herself wouldn't make me believe your comparison.
You do realize I can dial in up to almost 12dB's of gain with a shiva, and five cubes... riiiight? Sound like total butt? You bet! Gets you to where you want to go though!
Eventually, you'll catch onto the idea that there is no SPL in a subwoofer, only in applications. Frequency response with a standard install may not *sound* proper to you, but that means absolutely nothing in terms of output. Simply by sitting here and comparing drivers, I'll say the shiva will walk all over that audiobahn in low wattage classes due to it's higher cone area, the reality that audiobahn's Sd is lower, their moving mass is like a ton of bricks, and I know their effiency ratings are bogus. In fact, I'll go as far to say they likely rated it at 2.83V/1m, with the coils @ 2 ohm, which would give it not 1 watt of reference power, but 4 watts, giving it a bogus 6db of gain that does not belong there.
Talking SPL is cheap. You can stare at the specifics of a driver all day long and never get close because things are being taken outside of their linear envelope, into realms that software cannot help. Seeing as how you can't even stare at audiobahn's specs because there are none to have, I'd say this is pretty much a pointless conversation.
LoneRanger
10+ year member
Old Yamahas Give Me Wood
First off, I have worked with both drivers, and can tell you from personal experience that the Audiobahn is a more capable SPL woofer. Hands down. It may have more cone area, but what the 'bahn lacks in cone area it more than makes up for in power handling. Ever try putting 1200w of constant power into a shiva in a large ported box for about five mintues......it's not pretty, nor does it smell good, let me assure you.
Written specs mean absolutely shit to me, on the Audiobahn or any other woofer. There's no way I can test most of that stuff with the equiptment I have available, so I pay absolutely no attention to them. Maybe you have the benefit of all the nice machinery to test XMAX and such, but I don't. I use CAD programs like WinISD to give me a general feel as to what is a good size box for the woofer and just keep building boxes and experimenting until I find one that mics the loudest....and I'm sure you know that most woofer companies fudge or misrepresent their specs in one way or another, otherwise you'd be able to plug the specs directly in to any CAD and get the perfect box every time. There is no true industry standard for obtaining these specs, so it's pretty much a free-for-all. I'm not defending this practice, just pointing out how common it is.
I honestly don't know as much about the physics of audio as you seem to, and never claim to. All I know is what I have seen and done with both woofers. I'd be more than willing to do an honest head-to-head SPL comparison with both woofers if you will supply me with a loaner (i'll pay shipping both ways) or sell me one for a discounted price. I'm sure as hell not going to pay $125 when I could have another 1200Q for the same price.
But I do understand where you're coming from.....If I were selling Adaire over the internet, I'd be on here saying the exact same things //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Written specs mean absolutely shit to me, on the Audiobahn or any other woofer. There's no way I can test most of that stuff with the equiptment I have available, so I pay absolutely no attention to them. Maybe you have the benefit of all the nice machinery to test XMAX and such, but I don't. I use CAD programs like WinISD to give me a general feel as to what is a good size box for the woofer and just keep building boxes and experimenting until I find one that mics the loudest....and I'm sure you know that most woofer companies fudge or misrepresent their specs in one way or another, otherwise you'd be able to plug the specs directly in to any CAD and get the perfect box every time. There is no true industry standard for obtaining these specs, so it's pretty much a free-for-all. I'm not defending this practice, just pointing out how common it is.
I honestly don't know as much about the physics of audio as you seem to, and never claim to. All I know is what I have seen and done with both woofers. I'd be more than willing to do an honest head-to-head SPL comparison with both woofers if you will supply me with a loaner (i'll pay shipping both ways) or sell me one for a discounted price. I'm sure as hell not going to pay $125 when I could have another 1200Q for the same price.
But I do understand where you're coming from.....If I were selling Adaire over the internet, I'd be on here saying the exact same things //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
jlaine
10+ year member
Vaporware
Whoops!
Problem one.
SPL burps don't last 5 minutes.
Problem two.
Shiva doesn't need 1200W to approach the level of the audiobahn.
That's the standard practice (minus the fudging comment), just manufacturering tolerances can be off by as much as 20%, that is to be expected though and you can work with it. This holds true for both drivers, so it's really moot- EXCEPT for the reality you have absolutely zero specs for the audiobahn driver at all. Big difference is we have real, independant, third-party proven DUMAX reports on the shiva. We KNOW what we are working with. CAD isn't at fault here. CAD assumes an anechoic chamber, you are slapping it inside a very small, fairly airtight cabin. Things CHANGE when you enter into that realm.
My selling adire has nothing to do with this at all. I don't market the shiva as an SPL woofer, I don't answer SPL questions - and I don't really care for SPL overall. What this is about is that without your proven identical installation, identical power, identical mic, this conversation is invalid and shouldn't even be considered. SPL, just like sound quality, is not all about the driver, it's about the installation.
paikiah
5,000+ posts
Wangaholic
I smell a flame....sniff, sniff
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